X-Pro1 - Bullfight in Spain
  • A few months back I attended the last Bullfight of the season in Seville, Spain... a Mano-a-Mano match, 2 men, 6 bulls. Jose Maria Manzanares vs Alejandro Talavante, with Jose Maria as the victor. These are a handful of my favorites.

    Visit patrickcavanbrown.com/blog to see more images of random things. I am going to try to post a shot per weekday all year... they will be primarily X-Pro1 shots.

    Bullfight 01

    Bullfight 02

    Bullfight 03

    Bullfight 04

    Bullfight05

    Bullfight 06
  • Fabulous images.
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    And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.

    Clearly someone who hates Fujifilm and their products.

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  • PhoTomPhoTom
    Posts: 511
    Bravo!!!
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  • Great pictures! 1, 2 and 6 are my favourites :)
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  • Great stuff - almost painterly at times?(especially the toreador vs bull in the arena vista-shot)Another VSCO Film user or?....

    best
    klehmann
  • Excellent. Some of the best posted here.
    Thank you
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  • philg31philg31
    Posts: 62
    A classic collection of shots mate,thanks for sharing these.
  • lucskylucsky
    Posts: 44
    Magnificent!
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  • WilzWorkz7WilzWorkz7
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    good!
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  • joeradzajoeradza
    Posts: 172
    Great!
  • Holy cow. These really are among the best I've seen here, no BS. Bravo and gracias. Could you let us know how you did post-processing?
  • zenzen
    Posts: 132
    images 5+6 are about as good as it gets. outstanding job, thanks for posting. :)>-
  • SimonHoSimonHo
    Posts: 141
    looks like they are 'heavy' post-processed, that makes the pictures not natural.
  • Gosh, thanks y'all!! Yes, heavily modified VSCO v.1.0 for Lightroom. Kodak Portra 800+ with a bunch of my own tweaks, if memory serves. It's funny, I purchased VSCO many moons ago and never touched it... I hated it... but it really grew on me and I use it a lot now, even in my stuff for clients (though for clients I use the barely-there presets for minor adjustments only).
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    Theyre a little heavily PPd for me and the subject matter would be more settling if it were somewhat less glamourising the unpleasant world of maiming and killing an animal for fun.

    thats referencing the last 3 images btw.
    But thats just me.
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  • awesome series!!!
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    on revisting later, I find the others just as objectionable, maybe more. THe PP seems to attempt to lend the images that dont feature 'action' a somewhat romantic feeling that the I feel the act of torturing an animal for delectation really doesnt deserve to have.
    Of course acts like this deserve documentation so maybe a more straight PP would help, that said I wouldnt go anywhere near it just like Id go no where near a dog fight.
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  • if they were turned B&W would they be too heavily PPd?
    just throwing that out there as a real question...
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    @shadowdetails as I said above, for me yes. I just have no wish to go and see this or in anyway publicise it. Id rather see the act die a rather more civilised death than the bulls involved.
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  • would you go anywhere near war? anywhere near auschwitz or birkenau? the killing fields of the khmer rouge? roman colosseum? a rodeo? a pet store? a slaughterhouse? do you eat meat?
    the brutality of man is everywhere... all around you. i hated watching the bullfight, but i loved taking pictures of it. i respect your desire to never see cruelty to animals (or to man), but pose the question, shouldn't we bear witness?
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    really? comparing this act to nazis?
    I dont go to the slaughterhouse and cheer the death of a cow.

    as I say, Id choose not to go and cheer when it went the way of bear bating on western europw.
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  • amazongbamazongb
    Posts: 103
    @shadowdetails whether or not one agrees with bullfighting, you've documented it quite well here.. nice work.
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    @amazongb I wont disgree that the photos (minus some PP) are nice, but that makes it worse and belies the actual unncessary and archaic brutality going on outside these pretty pics.
    And we all know full whats going on in these places, it doesnt need more documentation, it needs shutting down in a supposedly modern europe.
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  • amazongbamazongb
    Posts: 103
    When I look at them, honestly, I feel bad for the bull. But isn't that what art asks of us? To have an emotion one way or the other? So, in that sense, it's worth documenting..I haven't seen a bullfighting picture in quite some time.. so it's heightened my awareness of the brutality. I suppose we can criticize artists for their interpretations, but then where does that get us? If these photos have influenced you to take up the task of preventing bullfighting in Europe, then perhaps we should appreciate them for that purpose.
  • steve1401steve1401
    Posts: 1,008
    Very nicely composed photos, but slightly over PPd for me too, HOWEVER, that is just me! I think that the 'art' of photography goes hand in hand with the 'art' of the post production. The fact that it's not for me is a very emotive and subjective reason. No matter how the end result is achieved, the end result is what is viewed and appreciated, or not, by the viewer.

    My biggest gripe is that people still learning the 'art' of PP kind of go over the top (@shadowdetails did say in the professional world he wouldn't apply nearly as much processing, and I do not presume he is a beginner for a single moment!) It's like HDR, I don't like it and done well, you should hardly know it's done at all, but then you get those that really push it to get this unique effect and all of a suden the feel of the picture is lost in a world of dramatic clouds behind well exposed buildings (usually in very wide angle lol)

    As for the act of the bull fight itself, seeing as it's been brought up, I'm with @Mattbaber. All iving things equal. I saw a photo of a bullfighter with a bulls horn through his gut once. My reaction: "Serves him right". Its barbaric and unnecessary entertainment. I personally couldn't give a flying f*£% if the bull charged into the crowd if they are gaining pleasure from the animals torture (unless it's a small baby or such who has no choice in said 'entertainment')...

    That said - I DO think it is valid to go and photograph them, I suppose even for the artistic merit - this I find difficult to form an opinion on, but these things do need documenting; it is life, like it or not, and it is happening...!!!
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    Despite my strong words I am conflicted with the choice to photograph this act or not. But since I feel I should come down on one side or the other I still feel its something we don't need documenting and publicising more, or atleast (and I mean this in the best possible way) this trite, picture-postcard quaint aspect of bright colours, wizened looking old men and rustic scene and triumphant man aspect. It's just done to death (pardon the pun) IMHO and brings nothing new.
    I mean this purely from a documentary view point. As postcards for tourists who wish to share this, these are great.
    Sorry if this offends, I don't mean to but I do wish I could get more from these and I just find them falling flat and emotionless for me (which may suprise).
    I'm no paint throwing, bunny hugging vegan btw but I do think this particular part of European "culture" has long outlived its value much like fox hunting here in the uk
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  • steve1401steve1401
    Posts: 1,008
    mattmaber said:

    But since I feel I should come down on one side or the other I still feel its something we don't need documenting and publicising more


    Yep, I'm with you all the way here, this is where my indicision lies, but yeah, ok it does need documenting, but until something really new and relevant happens, it has been documented enough...
    mattmaber said:

    Sorry if this offends, I don't mean to but I do wish I could get more from these and I just find them falling flat and emotionless for me


    If you was referring to anything in my reply, well I'm not offended in the slightest, in fact I hoped my reply was kind of in strong agreement...
    mattmaber said:

    I'm no paint throwing, bunny hugging vegan btw


    Lol - bunny hugging down your way, tree huggers we call 'em up north :-)
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    @steve1401 ha no, i didnt think id offended you, or anyone specifically, just making sure my candour didnt come over as too veracious.
    yeah tree-huggers here too, but trees arent genrally tortured for the delectation and entertainment of small minded people, drooling into their laps with excitement.
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  • mattmaber said:

    @steve1401 but trees arent genrally tortured for the delectation and entertainment of small minded people, drooling into their laps with excitement.



    what about camp fires??

    =)) :-))
  • amazongbamazongb
    Posts: 103
    Running with the bulls is a great time for the bulls to get even :)
  • rjxrjx
    Posts: 35
    This is definitely a great series of images.

    However, I wish I could do to these bullfighters what the bullfighters do to the bulls. Very sad and cruel.
    “In photography, the smallest thing can be a great subject. The little, human detail can become a Leitmotiv.” -- Henri Cartier-Bresson
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  • JustinJustin
    Posts: 60
    @shadowdetails these are incredible. Bravo. Bravo.
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  • Great images that document a local tradition (not a european tradition).

    Some people criticize these kind of events but forgive a lot other artists work like world press photo awarded photos on war scenario. Oh wait! That is not brutality on animals, so that's ok.

    Like someone said here: very well documented.
    Congrats
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    mazzagran said:


    Some people criticize these kind of events but forgive a lot other artists work like world press photo awarded photos on war scenario. Oh wait! That is not brutality on animals, so that's ok.



    I wouldnt equate war involving people with entirely unncessary cruelty to animals for some poeples entertainment .. but whatever floats your boat.
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  • pominpocketpominpocket
    Posts: 2,029
    Hemingway glorified bull fighting but he is still read.
    I think photography should be able to document everything .

    At the killing fields here in Cambodia they actually open the tomb of all the skulls so flash does not reflect off the glass. Yes a bit morbid.

    I was in Spain years ago, and was sitting in cafe where they were showing on tv all the times the bull got the man. Myself and my mates were laughing hard at this .. until we noticed the entire cafe of macho Spanish studs were eyeing us with intent to murder.

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  • I'm going to have to agree with Maber here (I think I'm going to be sick), bull fighting is 100% atrocious behavior on the part of people. I support photographing it in all its gory details and showing people what the hell it is so that they can see what passes for entertainment. Some will get the real picture from this and minds can be changed.

    Seeing the inside of a beef packing plant started me on the irreversible path to vegetarianism. Education goes a long way.

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    And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.

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  • pominpocketpominpocket
    Posts: 2,029
    Hemingway glorified bull fighting but he is still read.
    I think photography should be able to document everything .

    At the killing fields here in Cambodia they actually open the tomb of all the skulls so flash does not reflect off the glass. Yes a bit morbid.

    I was in Spain years ago, and was sitting in cafe where they were showing on tv all the times the bull got the man. Myself and my mates were laughing hard at this .. until we noticed the entire cafe of macho Spanish studs were eyeing us with intent to murder.

    Fuji X100S
    Fuji XE1 35mm 1.4



  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969

    I'm going to have to agree with Maber here (I think I'm going to be sick), bull fighting is 100% atrocious behavior on the part of people.



    Ha, I think I here the clippity clop of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse....


    I perosnally dont think its necessary to photograph, we know what happens, just join the 20th century and ban it.

    Im not a vegetarian, do i need to justify it? I like the taste of meat and atleast its not breed to be ritually tortured whilst being looked on by 1000s of baying Neanderthals.
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  • mattmaber said:

    I'm going to have to agree with Maber here (I think I'm going to be sick), bull fighting is 100% atrocious behavior on the part of people.



    Ha, I think I here the clippity clop of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse....


    I perosnally dont think its necessary to photograph, we know what happens, just join the 20th century and ban it.

    Im not a vegetarian, do i need to justify it? I like the taste of meat and atleast its not breed to be ritually tortured whilst being looked on by 1000s of baying Neanderthals.


    I like the taste of meat too. At least I did 12 years ago when i stopped eating it. Can't say I remember what it tastes like now. Is the cow happier to be killed in solitude? Does it suffer less?
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  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    Food is food, but if someone gets their jollies watching animal being slowly tortured to death or doing that act then thats just plain wrong.
    Any country not banning this does not deserve to be in a group of supposedly modern fellow countries.
    "Tradition" is no excuse either, or we may as well all go live back in caves as that was popular aeons ago.
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  • mattmaber said:

    Food is food, but if someone gets their jollies watching animal being slowly tortured to death or doing that act then thats just plain wrong.
    Any country not banning this does not deserve to be in a group of supposedly modern fellow countries.
    "Tradition" is no excuse either, or we may as well all go live back in caves as that was popular aeons ago.



    Eating meat is a tradition. It's no more necessary than bull fighting. If eating meat were necessary to live, I'd have died a long time ago.
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  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    hmm.
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  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    I wouldnt be placed to argue that, but you have to come down on one side or the other and Im against stabbing cows for fun, or watching it.
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  • pominpocketpominpocket
    Posts: 2,029
    But the human mouth has meat eating flesh tearing canines. We are meat eaters . Some like your self choose not to eat meat.

    Many none meat eaters become anemic .

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  • @mattmaber I totally understand you point of view but have to agree and also disagree.

    I have been to one bullfight locally where I live in Spain. I did not enjoy the spectacle and probably wont ever go again. The images captured here do not show the barbarism or even the willingness of humans to bate, torture or kill other humans or animals. The final cutting off of the bulls' ears is for me a disrespectful act that encapsulated the whole correda.
    There are other types of bull fighting where the bull is not killed or maimed. I have not witnessed these and until I do I will not declaim them.

    I have no desire to see a one sided contest. Man v. Bull maybe but there is no need to add in picador and other helpers to aid the matador provide a killing. That said I would say that there is an art present but it is not for me! Neither do I desire to force my opinion on others who might want to see it.

    Regarding running with bulls I do think this is sport.
    Around my town we have running with bulls and each year there are about 3-6 fatalities and many injuries to people but none to the bulls. :-)

    There are many people who think running with bulls is equally barbaric. If that is the case then I am willing to provide those people with opportunities to run and see how long they survive!

    I am a libertarian and dont believe in the nanny state or political correctness. A spade is a spade. I do agree that the correda is cruel but we need to educate why we think it so instead of stating it as fact rather than opinion!
  • BTW the photos are good captures of the event that some might find too post processed but that is a personal preference. The art is the representation of what the photographer saw and his view of it in total or some smaller part.

    Interesting images. :-)
  • joeradzajoeradza
    Posts: 172
    Isn't it amazing how vegetarians consistently justify their aversion to meat in a holier than thou way. If you don't eat meat, fine. Just do away with the proselytizing.
  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    what happens to the bulls after the run?
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  • mattmabermattmaber
    Posts: 3,969
    I wont be convinced there is any art, honour or machismo iny this or that its anything other than the lowest form of 'entertainment' only to be enjoyed by those with gawping bloodlust of the worst kind.
    The few that get gored by the bull are of no consolation to me, Id rather they just didnt get involved.
    It has NO place in supposedly modern, civilised society - like bear bating and dog fighting.

    As for the runnign of the bulls, if anyones stupid enough to run down a small street with bulls chasing them they get what they deserve, of course the bull being stabbed to death has no choice in the matter.

    How is anyone defending this activity in 2013? Seriously?
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  • veejayceeveejaycee
    Posts: 2,012
    Jknights said:

    @mattmaber I totally understand you point of view but have to agree and also disagree.

    I have been to one bullfight locally where I live in Spain. I did not enjoy the spectacle and probably wont ever go again. The images captured here do not show the barbarism or even the willingness of humans to bate, torture or kill other humans or animals. The final cutting off of the bulls' ears is for me a disrespectful act that encapsulated the whole correda.
    There are other types of bull fighting where the bull is not killed or maimed. I have not witnessed these and until I do I will not declaim them.

    I have no desire to see a one sided contest. Man v. Bull maybe but there is no need to add in picador and other helpers to aid the matador provide a killing. That said I would say that there is an art present but it is not for me! Neither do I desire to force my opinion on others who might want to see it.

    Regarding running with bulls I do think this is sport.
    Around my town we have running with bulls and each year there are about 3-6 fatalities and many injuries to people but none to the bulls. :-)

    There are many people who think running with bulls is equally barbaric. If that is the case then I am willing to provide those people with opportunities to run and see how long they survive!

    I am a libertarian and dont believe in the nanny state or political correctness. A spade is a spade. I do agree that the correda is cruel but we need to educate why we think it so instead of stating it as fact rather than opinion!



    Well put on all points @Jknights

    As to vegetarians - If they want to eat only vegetables good luck to them so long as they don't take a holier than thou stance to preach to me as if you are better people for it because they are not. They have weaker stomachs (speaking in the vernacular here) for eating meat (perhaps once they've seen it butchered) but that does just prove they have weaker stomachs - not that they have any more feeling for the animals than I or anyone else. If it were not for meat eaters none of these animals would have been born would they? At least they saw some life - no thanks to vegetarians.
    As for castigating those who attend or practice bullfighting - well it's all down to where you draw the line isn't it. I would not attend a bullfight but it's not for me to decide on the traditions of another country. You might not like bullfighting but you may enjoy eating veal (which I don't do because of the way it is produced - the UK has standards but most likely your veal comes from elsewhere). I won't eat Danish pork or bacon - again for the way the animals are kept.
    What I said about vegetarians goes equally for those who think they can tell me I should not like bullfighting - it is just chance that I don't want to see a bullfight again (I saw one on a school journey would you believe), those people are not entitled to preach either - their line is drawn in a different place.
    Recently there was an outcry in UK when some supermarket beef burghers were found to contain traces of horse-meat. The fuss was not about misrepresentation but about people unknowingly eating horse meat yet many of these people will have holidayed on the continent where the practice of serving horse meat as steak is fairly common - I know I've eaten it. In some countries dog flesh is eaten and whale meat (a staple of many foodstuffs for Brits in WWII), is still a delicacy. Many in UK would not dream of eating rabbit because of the "bunny" connotation yet I grew up on rabbit, pigeon and anything else my ex-gamekeeper father could bring home after the war and I still eat it now.
    I believe in compassion in farming and I reserve the right to not attend nor to endorse what I consider to be a cruel sport - that's where I draw my line. I do not have the right to force anyone to toe my line or to antagonise those who draw their lines differently.
    It is one thing to "educate" - preferably by example - but quite another to browbeat or force one's opinion as if it is the only sane option.
    When I see rants like "It has no place in a modern, civilised society" - I see someone who is pandering to so-called "popular opinion" (which means those do-gooders who shout loudest so they must be right), not someone who is giving their own truly felt opinion. Righteous indignation and crocodile tears. If you believe it is wrong to bullfight then it is wrong because it is cruel and painful to the animal - it is not wrong because we live in "a modern civilised society"!
    I'm surprised at you @mattmaber - you sound as despotic as FPC.
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    Nikon D700/D300, 17-35mm, 24-70mm, 28-300mm, 50-500mm, 35, 50, 85, 135 and 180mm primes. Fuji XPro 1, Fujinon XF lenses - 14mm f2.8, 35mm f1.4, Fuji XF 60mm f1.4, 18-55mm f2.8-4 OIS, 55-200mm f3.5-f4.8 OIS.
  • joeradzajoeradza
    Posts: 172
    Dear Vic, I can't believe I ever tried to castigate you in a post a while back (the hospital pic). Thank you for a well thought, intelligent and fair post. Regards, Joe

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