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Dan, I remember your post, and I also remember how it was distorted and unjustly argued. I also remember what the "Experts" did to Jim Radcliffe and Lindsay Dobson - unforgivable. And now a ring leader from DPR is seeking accolades, on this forum, using you a justification for their motives. Nuts!
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dbarnett66 said:
I never condoned rude or vulgar behavior. Go to dpreview and see my appeal to stop the personal attacks. Click on link below:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=40320057
I tried to keep the threads civil. I understand that you are upset with how some have been treated and I agree with your point of view that some went too far. I am merely reflecting that Fuji had to see the discontent from a vocal group of users. When I saw some night photos that contained nearly a hundred white beach balls, I knew that I couldn't defend the original sensor any longer. Even if I only had a few photos afflicted, it does not mean that other photographers would obtain the same results. We all shoot in different situations and have different needs. I hope this clarifies my point of view. Thanks for your time in responding. I think open discussions like this do help.
Beach balls....that's a good one. I've got a ton of beach balls in my X10 shots too. That's a better name than orbs.
Fujifilm Gear: F10, F20, F70EXR, XF1, X10, X100 (w/ Fujinon WCL-X100), S5 Pro, (w/Nikkor 24mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.8, and 50mm f/1.2 lenses), Fujifilm GA645
And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.
Clearly someone who hates Fujifilm and their products.
MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz, 8 gigs RAM -
WillH said:
Dan, I remember your post, and I also remember how it was distorted and unjustly argued. I also remember what the "Experts" did to Jim Radcliffe and Lindsay Dobson - unforgivable. And now a ring leader from DPR is seeking accolades, on this forum, using you a justification for their motives. Nuts!
I see your point. Maybe my post did supply ammunition to prove their point of view. It was not my intent. I guess it is tough to be a straight shooter on the internet. I am old school in that I like eye to eye contact and a handshake when talking with others on sensitive or issues that can flare up. It is tough to converse to the masses and make everyone understand or get them to agree. I was hoping to share my experience as a way to demonstrate that consensus does not have to happen immediately. Thanks for the reply.
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dbarnett66 said:WillH said:
Dan, I remember your post, and I also remember how it was distorted and unjustly argued. I also remember what the "Experts" did to Jim Radcliffe and Lindsay Dobson - unforgivable. And now a ring leader from DPR is seeking accolades, on this forum, using you a justification for their motives. Nuts!
I see your point. Maybe my post did supply ammunition to prove their point of view. It was not my intent. I guess it is tough to be a straight shooter on the internet. I am old school in that I like eye to eye contact and a handshake when talking with others on sensitive or issues that can flare up. It is tough to converse to the masses and make everyone understand or get them to agree. I was hoping to share my experience as a way to demonstrate that consensus does not have to happen immediately. Thanks for the reply.
I dont know what happened to Jim Radcliffe but your post did NOTHING to support someone's nasty attack against a person's (Lindsay Dobson) web site. Anyone who thinks you lended support to such efforts is out of their mind.Fujifilm Gear: F10, F20, F70EXR, XF1, X10, X100 (w/ Fujinon WCL-X100), S5 Pro, (w/Nikkor 24mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.8, and 50mm f/1.2 lenses), Fujifilm GA645
And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.
Clearly someone who hates Fujifilm and their products.
MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz, 8 gigs RAM -
At last I have the new sensor in my old camera and it's very , very good.
The previous poster who got an exchange camera from Fuji USA seems to have a sensor that behaves rather like my old one.
Perhaps no new X10 before the 22 serial range ( the second quarter of this year ) has it fitted.
At least Fuji UK have given me a written assurance that the new sensor is fitted ....handy when selling.
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Has anyone in the US just sent their X10 in directly without being first contacted by Fujifilm? I had my name added to their 'list' but I have not heard from them.
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Christopher said:
Has anyone in the US just sent their X10 in directly without being first contacted by Fujifilm? I had my name added to their 'list' but I have not heard from them.
I am not aware of anyone who sent there camera in without notification. Fuji did send a PDF file to be printed and completed with the camera. The information was generic on the form and not owner specific. I sent my camera to NJ on Friday, June 15. It is supposed to arrive on June 21.
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Although I supposedly had my name on the Edison NJ list I had not been contacted. I called them yesterday and they told me they sent out about 300 emails ten days ago and that 100 had bounced back. I never received an email so they took my email address again and told me that a new batch of emails would go out at 5:30 pm EDT. I received mine at 4:21 pm and the camera is now on its way. Should be there tomorrow 6/20.
Bottom line, if you haven't heard from Edison NJ by now, I'd call them again. -
This is a test image from my new Fuji X10 - just bought last week with a serial number starting 21N. There was a suggestion earlier in this thread that this may be a new sensor by 'spotmaticjack' as he had received a brand new camera in Germany with a similar serial number when he send his old X10 in for sensor replacement. This is my attempt at shooting something that might have resulted in orbs - personally I don't see anything wrong with this one. -
Thanks for the details everyone! One of our community members here forwarded me the email and PDF they sent out, but I'll call Edison NJ to confirm. Unfortunately I'm going to be out of town in a week, for about 6 weeks, I might have to wait until August to ship my X10 out.
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Christopher said:
Thanks for the details everyone! One of our community members here forwarded me the email and PDF they sent out, but I'll call Edison NJ to confirm. Unfortunately I'm going to be out of town in a week, for about 6 weeks, I might have to wait until August to ship my X10 out.
I thought I read that this recall program expires in September. Did anyone else read that?
Fujifilm Gear: F10, F20, F70EXR, XF1, X10, X100 (w/ Fujinon WCL-X100), S5 Pro, (w/Nikkor 24mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.8, and 50mm f/1.2 lenses), Fujifilm GA645
And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.
Clearly someone who hates Fujifilm and their products.
MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz, 8 gigs RAM -
I got my X10 yeasterday from Park Cameras UK - they said,
"We can confirm that we do have stocks available of the Fuji X10, all of which are brand new stock items. Fuji have confirmed that all stocks we now have should all be in perfect working order, and unaffected by this original sensor issue."
I've yet to test mine for 'orb syndrome' what's a good test to do?
I'm a bit concerned as the firmware is Ver1.03 which was to fix orb problems - if it's a new sensor surely it would have that fix 'built in'
The serial number is 21N50776, I've emailed Fuji to confirm this has the new sensor, as yet no reply.
www.neilcooper.co.uk -
Hello, first post here, however - reading a lot...great site!
I called yesterday Fuji NA in Edison, NJ (1-800-659-3854) and talked to a very nice and friendly Tech regarding my early X10 purchased last December. In short, I received an email from them within two hours that included a Word document attached with specific instructions for shipping the camera to NJ (postage paid)- no questions asked! They only want the camera with no accessories (battery, strap,cables, etc.) The form has a section that must be checked regarding sensor replacement or their (Fuji) choice for a camera replacement. I was told that by marking "yes" (option is yes-no), they will ship a new camera. He also confirmed that serial numbers(North America)for new X10's with the new sensor start with 21Axxxxx. My camera was a 14Axxxxx. Turn around once received by Fuji is 1-2 days!! I shipped mine today and should be in NJ by this coming Friday. Hopefully I should have a new one by the end of next week. I will confirm here once received. It appears they have their act together - Way to go Fuji... Please be aware that the warranty/replacement cycle for faulty X10's here in the U.S. will only be through September 30, 2012 as stated in the email received from them.
Hope this helps. All the best to everyone.
Alex -
I am curious, if anyone knows; are they replacing senors or cameras in the US? Also, do they first determine if your camera, mine has a serial number beginning 14A, requires an upgrade or a replacement based on some testing they perform to see if you have a "orb" problem?? I called today, as my email registration from some months ago apparently got lost in the shuffle and they are sending me a new email with the info for sending in the camera, but I would like to know just exactly what is going to happen.
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It's obvious that Fuji, despite what the "Exspurts" at DPR FTF profess, is trying to do the proper thing for their customer base. I believe they had some early cameras with sensors that produced blooms while others did not. They tried a firmware fix, and that apparently didn't help all the sensors. They elected to replace the sensors allowing each sales region to determine how they wanted to service their customers. Replace cameras or replace sensors. It's obvious the largest service region is North America and the most cost effective, and trouble free approach, is to replace cameras. That's what American customers are getting - new cameras. England, with a smaller customer service area, are having their sensors replace (obviously more time consuming).
Point being, Fujifilm is trying despite what the critics are saying.
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neweycoop said:
I got my X10 yeasterday from Park Cameras UK - they said,
"We can confirm that we do have stocks available of the Fuji X10, all of which are brand new stock items. Fuji have confirmed that all stocks we now have should all be in perfect working order, and unaffected by this original sensor issue."
I've yet to test mine for 'orb syndrome' what's a good test to do?
I'm a bit concerned as the firmware is Ver1.03 which was to fix orb problems - if it's a new sensor surely it would have that fix 'built in'
The serial number is 21N50776, I've emailed Fuji to confirm this has the new sensor, as yet no reply.
Sounds like a fairly similar serial number to mine - I got mine last week from WEX. I would imagine the firmware on the camera will be the latest one available at the time of manufacture and that won't change until they release another firmware update. Please see my post earlier in this thread for my test at shooting a subject that might result in orbs. I'm pretty happy with it and I'm assuming that because nobody has throw their hands up in horror at shouting 'ORBS' yet, it must be ok :-) -
WillH said:
I've read some reports that the new sensor at ISO100 size M is not usable due to excessive noise and such.
You tell me!
Is that the new sensor? Looks fine to me. -
Thanks drd1135, I actually had nothing to do with the picture other than I pushed the button. I set the mode to S, ISO 100 (as a test), F/4.5 (to get a little blur)and shutter at 1/250. Kinda dark....but that is EXACTLY how the scene was in the shade of a large maple tree. NO processing of any kind was done! I think the camera is doing just fine!
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Hi,
I got my X10 back after the sensor replacement just 2 days ago (Germany). The first I saw was the poor look of the body - the "leather" cover was detached at several places where they had to lift it off for the screws but didn't fix it right again afterwards. The thumb rubber on the back was almost loose, I had to detach it to see what's wrong - the glue tape was out of place. I had to press the rubber toughly on it's fixation points and hope it will last, but I am not convinced. This is a sign for the mass of work they do in the sensor case, I think. They are under pressure and the work they do is looking right the same. So I was very alert about what the sensor is showing. First: no orbs any more! The image quality seems the same as before, but I didn't have the time to check it out as deeply as I want and will do (The weather is bad, too). I wondered if there was more noise at 400 ASA, but I cannot really tell until I have taken more pictures outside in comparable situations as I did before the replacement. More will follow here soon! -
onthewall said:
Hi,
I got my X10 back after the sensor replacement just 2 days ago (Germany). The first I saw was the poor look of the body - the "leather" cover was detached at several places where they had to lift it off for the screws but didn't fix it right again afterwards. The thumb rubber on the back was almost loose, I had to detach it to see what's wrong - the glue tape was out of place. I had to press the rubber toughly on it's fixation points and hope it will last, but I am not convinced. This is a sign for the mass of work they do in the sensor case, I think. They are under pressure and the work they do is looking right the same. So I was very alert about what the sensor is showing. First: no orbs any more! The image quality seems the same as before, but I didn't have the time to check it out as deeply as I want and will do (The weather is bad, too). I wondered if there was more noise at 400 ASA, but I cannot really tell until I have taken more pictures outside in comparable situations as I did before the replacement. More will follow here soon!
I would tear Fujifilm a new one if they returned one of my cameras in such a terrible state. Do NOT accept that. You have a RIGHT to have your camera returned as in the same condition you sent it in.
You are correct, Fujifilm has a MASSIVE amount of work to fix all these defective X10's. Here in China, the Fujifilm service center has thousands in line to get fixed. I have no idea when my turn will come. Months I suspect as there are less than a dozen techs at their whole service center here in Shanghai. What about all the other cameras besides the X10 that need service?
What an absolute nightmare.
Fujifilm Gear: F10, F20, F70EXR, XF1, X10, X100 (w/ Fujinon WCL-X100), S5 Pro, (w/Nikkor 24mm f/1.4, 35mm f/1.8, and 50mm f/1.2 lenses), Fujifilm GA645
And a freezer full of Fuji Neopan Acros and 400H film.
Clearly someone who hates Fujifilm and their products.
MacBook Pro 2.53 GHz, 8 gigs RAM -
Just got this from Fuji UK:
Unfortunately we cannot tell if a camera has the new sensor in by the serial number. There is no way of us checking. If you experiencing the white orbs, please let us know ASAP.
Unbelievable! Are they just too busy / lazy to find out? Surely a quick email to the factory would get an answer. I've been a fan of Fuji film and cameras for years and thought they were a great company - might have to reconsider now.
www.neilcooper.co.uk -
drd1135 said:
I find it odd that we are getting different repairs depending on the country. US is getting new cameras but Germany is actually replacing the sensor and not doing really good work. I wonder who makes these decisions?
It's obvious Fujifilm is allowing each region to determine how they want to deal with their customers.
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I just complained about the bad shape the camera was in when they sent it back after sensor replacement at Fuji service Germany. See what they will do now. I still cannot tell if the sensor issue is fixed 100% and the imaging quality the same as before, I would have to make more photos to compare and go into detail. Discouraging. The X10 was a great and surprising experience for me. I wouldn't like to have it spoiled sustainingly.
update:
They called me right back and apoligized for the bad work they have done. They will take back the camera and send me a new one in return immediately. Hope this will end the trouble. -
WillH said:
It's obvious Fujifilm is allowing each region to determine how they want to deal with their customers.
Well, yeah, but that's not necessarily a good approach since forums like this make everyone's experience common knowledge. If someone doesn't look on photo websites, how would they know there even was a fix? -
drd1135 said:
Well, yeah, but that's not necessarily a good approach since forums like this make everyone's experience common knowledge. If someone doesn't look on photo websites, how would they know there even was a fix?
Really! I was notified via an email from Fuji USA! Explained everything with sufficient detail.
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@onthewall and @drd1135 As I told allready in my earlier postings: I received a brand new 21Gxxxx serialnumber camera from Fuji Germany within a few days after sending (25th may) my old X10 (serialnumber 14Gxxxx) back to them. Maybe it will be to expensive for Fuji to replace ''the world'' with new cameras and now ''refurbish'' the old ones?..
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WillH said:drd1135 said:
Well, yeah, but that's not necessarily a good approach since forums like this make everyone's experience common knowledge. If someone doesn't look on photo websites, how would they know there even was a fix?
Really! I was notified via an email from Fuji USA! Explained everything with sufficient
detail.
Did Fuji just email you? I got an email in response to my contacting them earlier.
I'm not complaining about Fuji. After, all, I got a new X10. Given how expensive all this is, however, I would have expected the main office to be pretty consistent about the sensor fix.
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drd1135 said:WillH said:drd1135 said:
Well, yeah, but that's not necessarily a good approach since forums like this make everyone's experience common knowledge. If someone doesn't look on photo websites, how would they know there even was a fix?
Really! I was notified via an email from Fuji USA! Explained everything with sufficient
detail.
Did Fuji just email you? I got an email in response to my contacting them earlier.
I'm not complaining about Fuji. After, all, I got a new X10. Given how expensive all this is, however, I would have expected the main office to be pretty consistent about the sensor fix.
I'm sure Fuji expects each regional sales area to take care of the customers in their respective sale location.
I never heard a word about the recall of my Toyota 4Runner from Toyota corporate - the dealership where I bought the vehicle contacted me! Fuji keeps it's cost reasonable by establishing regional sales offices to do the bulk of the customer service interaction. How each region elects to provide that service is up to them. After all they would know best what skills and equipment they have to provide service. I honestly don't understand your problem, issue or complaint..... It's a little inexpensive camera.
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md_eric said:
every should get the same treatment whether you are from US or china or timbuktu. if their replacing the sensor/assembly then fine. but if you are hearing US is getting a new camera and others is getting less thats a bummer.
That would be ideal! I'm sure N.America was looking at a large number of units being returned. Fuji was probably looking at hiring extra help to deal with the influx of cameras. The time needed to bring additional help up to speed would have pushed the project back months.
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I have been informed that my camera is on its way back from Edison, NJ with a new lens assembly, which contains the new sensor and that this was installed in my existing camera and not a new camera. I will check the serial numbers when it arrives, but apparently, only selected cameras are being totally replaced. Mine bore serial number 14Axxxx.
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I sent mine off for sensor replacement here in the UK today.
So far, the service I have received from Fuji has been exemplary. I realise that the proof will be in the pudding when my beloved X10 is returned, but I have high expectations based upon my experiences with them so far.
I shall keep my fingers crossed.
As an aside, WillH, those images are superb. I would be very proud of them. If that is the quality of the new sensor, then I don't think we have much to worry about.
Cheers
Neil -
Neil, I've seen many photographs taken by amateur and professional photographers using the new X10 sensor and they are good or better than mine. Most were better because of the skill level of the photographer.
What we're seeing now is a group of vocal pessimists that are chronic complainers. Those pessimist tend to influence others who are unsure of themselves and their camera. Reading all the negative dialog on the forums is fruitless. I believe in the camera and hope others will take lots of pictures and make up their own opinion based on what THEY see not what they read in these forums. I discovered the really talented X10 users rarely post in forums which tends to squew the postings toward the pessimistic view. Remember these forums represent a tiny portion of the actual X10 users - sadly some harbor a hidden agenda. -
robk47 said:
I have been informed that my camera is on its way back from Edison, NJ with a new lens assembly, which contains the new sensor and that this was installed in my existing camera and not a new camera. I will check the serial numbers when it arrives, but apparently, only selected cameras are being totally replaced. Mine bore serial number 14Axxxx.
I got off the phone with a person in NJ and I was told that if you checked off the option for a New Fujifilm replacement camera, then you would receive a new camera. He did tell me that they had replacement lens assemblies if you wanted your original camera back. Did you check "YES" for a replacement camera? The Fuji representative made it sound like that a customer has a choice in the way the sensor swap is handled. I did check "yes" and confirmed that I am getting a new camera arriving tomorrow with a "21 series" serial number.
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I did IN FACT make a point of checking off the request for a NEW camera, but that is NOT what I have been told that I am getting. Now, I am not complaining, except that I pulled my screen protector off and I am informed that it cannot be reinstalled and so, I have to fork over another $10 for a new one. I might however come up with some special stickum to put the old one back on. The bottom line for me is that I trust and hope that the orb thing is minimized and that the rest of the camera performs as it did before I sent it.
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Just to update - today I received my camera back (same serial number) in just under three weeks. I hoped for two weeks but this is fine, after being told on the phone 25 working days and learning that the sensor replacement was being done in the UK (I live in Italy). The first "orb" shot on cars in the sun were fine. I will try night shots, as some have suggested, but I am confident that the camera is now on the right track.
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I asked Fuji why I did not get a NEW camera, even though I checked the box. The email response was:
"The procedure with the X10 repairs is as follows.
If we have the part available to fix the X10, then we will fix the original camera. If however, the part is unavailable, we exchange the old camera for a new one with the updated sensor. In your case, we had the part available for repair so an exchange was not needed."
Of course, I thought that the idea was to replace the sensor, which I am told is part of the lens assembly. Okay, but they had the part for me and for others (apparently randomly) they do not???? -
The only thing I can think of robk47, is if Fuji felt that your camera was not in "new" condition. The tech did tell me that they would only replace my camera if it appeared to be in new condition with no obvious damage. The tech did tell me that they have both new cameras and replacement sensor/lens assemblies. I am just as confused as you are.
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got my X10 back today and according the the attached service specification it now has a replaced sensor.
serial number is the same as before and the LCD-protection is still on, so it is my camera for sure - so repair, not replace, in my case
image numbering skipped by 4 (i have read it skippet by 1000s for some)
the yellow piece keeping the battery in place seems replaced. before was a part that felt more like rubber that flipped back and forth. now it feels more like hard plastic that can be pushed away to the side of the battery compartment. but it seems to be working just fine
unfortunately the rubber part for the OVF is now a bit loose (it wasn't before). i also see something, some sort of brighter spot/dust speck off the image frame (in the black area) when i look in the view finder.
i think i will let this pass since i tend to use the LCD most of the time.
will take it for a test this weekend. hoping for same nice image results, minus the ORBs :)
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