raagamuffin

RAW processing software

26 posts in this topic

I have been using a very old version of LR and I think I am ready to upgrade.

I have started shooting in RAW on an XT2 (previously I was only using JPG). 

I am looking for your thoughts on all the different options available with some of the latest versions - Irident,  On1, and any others.

Mac or Windows is OK. While I have beefed up systems of both, I may have a bias to my Macbook Pro. 

Thanks.

 

 

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If you are using a windows pc and want a mainstream option, SilkyPix 7 or Capture One offer best results.

If you want to try minority left field software you could take a look at Picture Code for Windows,

Can't comment on other Mac options.

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artuk,

Thanks, capture One looks interesting. I did download a trial of Silkypix, it reminded me of software from the 90s. :)

I think Fuji uses a version of that in its free converter, if i'm not mistaken. 

 

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The old SilkyPix that Fuji used has been replaced by Fuji RAW converter powered by SilyPix. You can download it for free and it's much better than SilkyPix as it's dedicated to Fuji camers. Hang on for January sales on Lightroom as Adobe normally do an offer on Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC. When Black Friday was here I got the Photographer bundle from Adobe for £110.

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24 minutes ago, LazarouINC said:

The old SilkyPix that Fuji used has been replaced by Fuji RAW converter powered by SilyPix. You can download it for free and it's much better than SilkyPix as it's dedicated to Fuji camers. Hang on for January sales on Lightroom as Adobe normally do an offer on Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC. When Black Friday was here I got the Photographer bundle from Adobe for £110.

In what way is SilkyPix v3 "better" than version 7 because it only works with Fuji files.

SP Pro v7 has significant improvements over the bundled Fuji version.  both give good results with X Trans raw files - something Adobe historically doesn't do, as LR has become bloated, slow, and the pixel level results from X Trans have been mediocre at best and easily bettered by other software such a Silky Pix or Capture One.

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VJC,

Interesting you should mention it, I purchased Affinity (it was only $40 here in the US) just because it was so cheap. I did find its raw output pretty good, though Irident Developer seems to be doing something with Fuji files that looks interesting (I'm not sure if its sharpening, or something else, some of you pros will have to weigh in). 

LazarouINC, I am leaning away from Adobe a bit, I don't fancy paying an yearly fee, I don't shoot enough yet to justify renting the software. As I mentioned, I used LR 4.4 until now, so I'm not the typical Adobe customer. 

artuk, 

I have been getting pretty good output with Silkypix when I downloaded the trial earlier this year, though it seems to run slow (refreshing the screen every so often, with a visible blink). Maybe this is addressed in a new update, not sure. 

 

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I keep getting spam from ON1 software, they are pushing their RAW converter, and editing suite.

It's on offer at $99 until the end of the month, that's more than I can spare right now, but I know nothing about it.

Presently, I'm using JPGs, or in camera conversion (which doesn't really replace desktop editing, so I gave up and went back to JPGs.

I have Lightroom 5.4, but it doesn't see the new sensors RAW files.

Anyone tried ON1? and any other solutions?

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Yeah I agree about Adobe and Lightroom.

Fuji are putting the cameras out at the rate they do and claiming they are professional tools. So they should be building there own stand alone RAW software, it's a discrace they haven't done it yet after all the years of the X series.

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1 hour ago, LazarouINC said:

Yeah I agree about Adobe and Lightroom.

Fuji are putting the cameras out at the rate they do and claiming they are professional tools. So they should be building there own stand alone RAW software, it's a discrace they haven't done it yet after all the years of the X series.

 Why?  Do Canon or Nikon have their own professional editing software?  Why should Fuji develop their own?  Japanese companies are notoriously bad at PC software, and for the tiny installed X mount user base, I can't imagine many pros switching from using Adobe.  The issue is that Adobe is lazy and complacent as they are market leader, so do the least possible work to implement the coding required for the very different X Trans raw file data (colour pixel layout) - the first few attempts were very poor and had lots of issues with colour smearing on edges, poor detail, poor sharpening, demosaicing issues and artefacts etc.  I gave up at that point as the software had also become bloated and slow.

20 hours ago, raagamuffin said:

artuk, 

I have been getting pretty good output with Silkypix when I downloaded the trial earlier this year, though it seems to run slow (refreshing the screen every so often, with a visible blink). Maybe this is addressed in a new update, not sure. 

 

It's true that the screen refresh when changing development settings can be a little sluggish.  There is a configuration option to do quick and dirty lower resolution preview before redeveloping in detail in the background.  On good modern hardware, and with a graphics card, the screen refresh is much faster to not be a problem (Lightroom was also painfully sluggish to render files last time I used it).  On PCs with Intel graphics solutions and shared graphics memory, or lower end processors, it is slower - depends which Intel chipset you have as some of the newer ones are actually quite powerful for what they are.  Basically on a PC you need decent hardware - Intel i5 or higher of the last 2-3 generations, 4-8Gb RAM, and a decent graphics solution (e.g Intel 520 or dedicated graphics card).  Cant comment on Macs - they tend to use Intel Iris graphics which is quite good but older slower processors.

Edited by artuk
added comments about Adobe.

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I'm just looking at the Affinity ad, it's £30 on offer in UK. I'm on the verge of pushing the button, free myself from the tyranny of Adobe. Hurrah!

You've bought this, raagamuffin, and you're not happy with it. ?

Does it handle RAF. files from the new sensor ok? It sounds pretty good, but you must be dissatisfied, or you wouldn't be looking for some thing else ;-)

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Doesn't seem a lot of point worrying about whether Iridient is any good, it's Mac only, and I have a pc.

As I say, I have Lr 5.4, it used to work reasonably well on the the old sensor, but literally cannot see RAF.'s from the new sensor.

I really don't like the idea of renting some Adobe editing time, sometimes I shoot a lot, then I might slacken off, or even stop, for a while.

So, I'd much prefer a product on my computer, that converted Fuji RAF's. This, "Affinity" is on special offer at £29.99, if it produces a good conversion to tiff or DNG, I can edit it elsewhere, in Lr, or Ps, for example.

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@johnwillyums

You can still update LR 5 to LR 6 standalone at a discount. You only find the discount on the pay page where you'll see the option to upgrade rather than buy the whole thing. However, I think you misread @Ragamuffin post - he found the raw output of affinity pretty good. Lots of reviews out there all of them saying how good it is and proposing it as the answer to Adobe products. Reviews are mostly dealing with the year old Mac version but I see no reason the Windows version will be any different.

http://www.techradar.com/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/best-photo-editing-software-1284627

http://petapixel.com/2015/06/18/hands-on-affinity-photo-is-the-photoshop-alternative-youve-been-waiting-for/

I shall probably get it just to try its raw output. Take a look at the at the video on the Affinity website.

 

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7 hours ago, johnwillyums said:

I'm just looking at the Affinity ad, it's £30 on offer in UK. I'm on the verge of pushing the button, free myself from the tyranny of Adobe. Hurrah!

You've bought this, raagamuffin, and you're not happy with it. ?

Does it handle RAF. files from the new sensor ok? It sounds pretty good, but you must be dissatisfied, or you wouldn't be looking for some thing else ;-)

One of the things to consider is what people want software for.  There are 3 common options:

- raw development

- editing

- catalogue management

Some software does only one of these, some all 3.

Another issue is if you want a 1 stop solution or you have other software to do other things - for example you already have an editing tool, and how much convenience is important.  where are you on a scale with image quality and one end and convenience at the other end?

Capture One and Lightroom offer a one stop solution for all 3 features, other software offers only basic raw development and nothing more.

Platform is the other consideration - some minority software is only compiled to run on Mac OS.

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I wish I could use LR without it cataloguing which I don't use. I find it annoying to have to open LR to to find and remove files and folders which I've moved or deleted in other applications. I really can't be bothered to catalogue stuff I've saved for many years before getting LR which I arranged to suit me including files scanned from film.

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2 hours ago, veejaycee said:

I wish I could use LR without it cataloguing which I don't use. I find it annoying to have to open LR to to find and remove files and folders which I've moved or deleted in other applications. I really can't be bothered to catalogue stuff I've saved for many years before getting LR which I arranged to suit me including files scanned from film.

I never used the cataloguing that much and to be honest when working across devices and external storage media I ended up with several catalogues - partly because huge catalogues just become too big and unmanageable unless you have a super computer and a multi TB SSD.
In the end I just catalogue myself on my media using directories etc - its not perfect but frankly I don't have time to go back over 10 years of digital photos to tag them efc.

So in the end all I need is a good editor (Corel PSP) and a raw development tool that majors on image quality that is reliable and "light" (will run on many specs of devices) - and that's SilkyPix Pro v7 for me which seems better than LR or Capture One (image quality) for my needs.

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johnwillyums,

 

I just bought Affinity about 4 days ago. I bought it because it was so cheap, about what I spend at a local takeout place. I am still playing around with it, its editing module (they have something called personas, akin to a module) is quite well featured. Its RAW, I still am not sure how good it is. For example, compared to Irident it seems to be not as crisp. I used the ON1 RAW, and it is comparable to Affinity. But I find the ON1 Editing features to be a bit ham handed, small tweaks can send the picture being over tweaked?. 
I would like to compare it to others as well. The reason I am still looking is not because I am not satisfied with Affinity. I figured that if I am going through the trouble of using RAW, which apparently can potentially be tweaked to better output than jpg, I should get a converter that gives the best results. Otherwise why go with a workflow that only achieves similar results to jpg? 

So, ON1 has a 30 day trial license, Affinity didn't seem to have anything like it, Irident can also be previewed without a license (saving results in a watermark), Silkypix also has a trial (though I felt the UI was a bit dated), Capture One is a bit out of my price range,  and LR's licensing is not my cup of tea. :) 

Also, ON1 doesn't currently support Fuji's lossless compression RAW files. 

So that is where I am in my travels. Hope this helps in some way. 

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Thank you for your replies veejaycee, artuk. and raagamuffin.

I need to do something. I'm enjoying the ease of JPGs, and loving Fuji's film simulations, but I preferred using RAW.

I think I may have difficulty upgrading my Lightroom, as I'm not sure it's a legitimate copy, a friend put in on for me, so I suspect it might be a pirate copy.

So, given what's been said, I might give Affinity a try. It is £30, which as raagamuffin said is a takeway meal for two these days, so I'll get it, and report back with results.

Also, I have never understood what Lr catalogue is. I have Lr library folders on several drives, if I delete them, will it matter?

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On 25/12/2016 at 10:18 PM, artuk said:

 Why?  Do Canon or Nikon have their own professional editing software?  Why should Fuji develop their own? 

Yes they do.

I am also a Canon user professionaly and have been using there system digitaly for 10 years or more. Canon DPP is there RAW software and for me works far better than Lightroom. I have my own pictures styles that I created stored on camera and on a memory card. Any picture I take in RAW the information is carried over into DPP.  So all my colours, contrast, sharpening, shadows, highlights and many other adjustments are there when images are transferred over to DPP. That means what I see on screen is what I get in software and leaves me virtually no editing to do. 

With lightroom everything is lost and set to a basic level which means messing around with photos all day. So if I'm out at a wedding a shoot 400 photos on my Fuji system I will have to mess about with every image meaning hours of work I don't need to be doing. Yes in Lightroom you can set up to import a Fuji film style but the images always need work doing on them anyway.

So if Fuji created some decent software then it could work like Canon DPP and make workflow much faster .

As a full time working pro I can not use the Fuji system to photograph a full wedding as I just couldn't waste all that time processing in Lightroom . I can have my processing done in 2 hours and everything as how I got it in camera on Canon.

I love Fuji but they need to sort a lot of things out if they want the cameras and system to be as practical as Canon and Nikon. It's not up to a 3rd partys to sort out the problems Fuji have.

 

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41 minutes ago, LazarouINC said:

Yes they do.

I am also a Canon user professionaly and have been using there system digitaly for 10 years or more. Canon DPP is there RAW software and for me works far better than Lightroom. I have my own pictures styles that I created stored on camera and on a memory card. Any picture I take in RAW the information is carried over into DPP.  So all my colours, contrast, sharpening, shadows, highlights and many other adjustments are there when images are transferred over to DPP. That means what I see on screen is what I get in software and leaves me virtually no editing to do. 

With lightroom everything is lost and set to a basic level which means messing around with photos all day. So if I'm out at a wedding a shoot 400 photos on my Fuji system I will have to mess about with every image meaning hours of work I don't need to be doing. Yes in Lightroom you can set up to import a Fuji film style but the images always need work doing on them anyway.

So if Fuji created some decent software then it could work like Canon DPP and make workflow much faster .

As a full time working pro I can not use the Fuji system to photograph a full wedding as I just couldn't waste all that time processing in Lightroom . I can have my processing done in 2 hours and everything as how I got it in camera on Canon.

I love Fuji but they need to sort a lot of things out if they want the cameras and system to be as practical as Canon and Nikon. It's not up to a 3rd partys to sort out the problems Fuji have.

 

As a Sony user, they make "Sony Image Data Converter" that does much of what you describe (mimics camera settings) but I wasn't aware anyone used camera maker software professionally as generally its so limited compared to third party offerings. Sony also offer Capture One for free or low cost (express/pro) for a more feature rich experience.  Most smaller makers bundle badge engineered versions of Silky Pix v3 which for Fuji now includes Fuji film simulations I believe - v3 is very old and lacks features found in newer versions but it is a perfectly professional tool and produces better pixel level results that Adobe with X Trans files.

 

Lightroom, C1 and SilkyPix all allows users to create their own presents and apply them on import/opening, of course.  I think Fuji RFC does some of what you want

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18 hours ago, johnwillyums said:

Also, I have never understood what Lr catalogue is. I have Lr library folders on several drives, if I delete them, will it matter?

So long as you don't remove the image files from the computer only from the LR catalogue. Your image files remain in their originally folders even though they have a link to them in LR. If you r-click and image to delete from LR, a dialogue box asks, delete from catalogue or remove from computer - don't remove from computer. Deleting from catalogue removes them from LR but they remain in your original folders.

Nikon's Capture NX2 was a great raw converter/editor. I can't understand why they dropped it. I still keep it on my PC even though support stopped several years ago and I can still do things with it that I can't with LR, PS, Silky, Nik or a couple of other editors I have. Obviously I can only work on tiffs but that's fine. Local adjustments are easy on NX2, best converter/editor I've used.

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I have the realease version of On1 Photo Raw. It seems to work well. I like there concept of virtual edits, no TIFF file editing (very similar to DX0). They claim they will be fine tuning it to RAF files(February release). It needs some work. They are taking suggestions from users on what features are wanted/needed. It seems to be an integrated solution especially with the resize/printing module. It also has some digital asset management (but needs more features) I'm going to stay with them.
I was working with Olympus and DXO. Since DXO does not work with Fuiji I've been floundering around looking for an editor. Tried a lot of editors. One of thse issues for me is how easy I can use the software. On One is very intuitive in my case. I did use OnOne 10 (the previous version) for a short while, so I'm familliar with their workflow. Hoping this will be it. There is 30 day free trial.
I did not try CC because I am an anti fanboy of Adobe for many reasons.

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On 12/24/2016 at 9:49 PM, artuk said:

....easily bettered by other software such a Silky Pix.....

After many years with DxO Optics, I purchased the Silkypix DS7 to convert my X-PRO2 files. The Silkypix is far better with X-trans files then any other converters - don't know the Capture 1.

With a bit of patience you can get used with the software interface...

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Valdo said:

After many years with DxO Optics, I purchased the Silkypix DS7 to convert my X-PRO2 files. The Silkypix is far better with X-trans files then any other converters - don't know the Capture 1.

With a bit of patience you can get used with the software interface...

I'm glad you like it too. It is expensive but Ichikawa software often have offers particularly for upgrades and their European operation offer an upgrade from the Fuji RFC bundled version.

The results on Bayer files from V7 are excellent. Capture One is very natural looking and better than Adobe (again Bayer files).

I don't understnd why people hate SilkyPix - its not ad if Lightroom or Capture One are intuitive or easy to use at purchase. All the concepts in SP are the dame, its just the controls are in a slightly different place and the icons are different. If you understand what Abode controls do, the learning curve is pretty simple.

if anyone wants help with SP private message me and I will do my best - I've been using it consistently for about 4 years now so hopefully I understand most of it!

Edited by artuk
hate not have

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35 minutes ago, artuk said:

If anyone wants help with SP private message me and I will do my best - I've been using it consistently for about 4 years now so hopefully I understand most of it!

Ha, I'm the first candidate.

I cannot find a DS7 manual in pdf. I found a DS7 PRO pdf manual, but the Pro version is quite different.

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