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Hi folks,

I´m new to the forum and after reading for a while I decided to write my first topic here. Unfortunately it is not exactly a positive one. However, it´s all about exchange of experiences. I´d like to know if others are affected and if there are any ideas how to get rid of the problem.

Before I start I should mention that I switched to Fuji about 1.5 years ago. Bought a "cheap" X-M1 as extension to my full frame equipment (from a well known Japanese company after sticking with them for almost 20 years). Felt in love with the X-M1, bought an X-T1. Was even more happy until the very day the X-T2 arrived. Since then, this camera is a constant source of disappointment for me. Which is a pity because besides the problem described here the X-T2 is close to perfect.

After switching from X-T1 to X-T2 I discovered soon that approx. 25-30% of my pictures are blurry, somehow out of focus. First of course I thought that I´m doing something wrong. New "toy", many new options. Easy to make mistakes. I tried a lot to understand what I´m doing wrong but finally wasn´t able to find a problem. However, pictures were still be out of focus quite often. So I started to shot test series with the same settings under same conditions to hopefully get reproducible results. What I got was a wild mix from pin-sharp pictures and really blurry ones. Some result as in everyday photography with my new X-T2. For the test series I used a setup that is comparable to my everyday setup (I do mostly landscapes, so this setup makes most sense for me). Here it is:

  • X-T2 on tripod
  • 18-55 lens used with stabilization switched off, set to 18mm
  • ISO set to 400 or 800 (depending on light situation)
  • aperture set to 8, exposure time set to automatic
  • single mid-size or small AF field in the middle of the viewfinder
  • static auto focus (AF-S)
  • priority on focus
  • face detection disabled
  • series of up to 20 pictures, focused on the same object in approx. 25-50 meters distance
  • both, camera and lens on newest firmware

During my test shots I found that the DOF-scale in the viewfinder (including the AF distance indicator) was "jumping" around like crazy from one shot to the next. According to this indicator, the AF target was everything between 1.5 meters and infinity away from me. Hey, it´s a balcony on a house. These guys usually don´t move! ;)

!!! Interesting thing is that the problem only occurs if I use the hybrid AF fields in the middle of the view finder. Using the "outside" contrast AF fields the focus works perfectly, without any exceptions !!!

So, with a heavy heart, I sent the X-T2 together with my 18-55 to Fuji for repair. Got it back after 4 weeks and the repair report mentioned that they have replaced the camera´s main board. So obviously there was something wrong with the camera. After testing for a few days and repeating my test series I found that nothing has changed. Some awkward behavior! I´ve got the chance to test another X-T2 at my camera dealer and it shows the same behavior, even confirmed by the dealer. So I was finally testing with another 18-55, my new 18-135, my 10-24 and some primes borrowed from friends. Same result, the only exception is the 10-24 where the problem occurs  only rarely.

I sent the X-T2 to Fuji again, got it back yesterday with no parts replaced but they mentioned that they have "adjusted the focus" (however this will work, if at all ;) ). Testing again this morning and again: nothing has changed. Same unacceptable rate of out-of-focus pictures. I went to the dealer today to try another X-T2. Long story short: same behavior.

Now my X-T2 is on it´s way to Fuji again, for the 3rd time. I own this camera since almost 4 months and it spent more times at Fuji and with UPS so far then in my hands. Frustrating!
And since I found the same problem with 2 other X-T2 I begin to believe that this is a problem that probably affects the whole series, at least a sub-series. I have no idea.

After 3rd repair attempt will fail (I´m afraid it will) I have to talk to my dealer again about taking back the X-T2 for refunding.
To be able to take photos in the meantime I bought a "cheap" X-T10. This camera works like a charm with all my lenses. But I need something more robust, weather sealed with more dedicated controls. A X-T2 with well working AF would be close to my dream camera.
But so far it isn´t.

Does anyone have encountered similar problems with X-T2 and comparable setup and lenses?
Did anyone get any help from Fuji, means a repaired or replaced X-T2?

I will provide a few sample pictures within the next few hours.

Cheers,
Daniel

 

P.S. sorry for the long post. But it´s hard to explain the whole story with just a few words. Sorry also for my "bumpy" English ;)

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, daniel-k said:

During my test shots I found that the DOF-scale in the viewfinder (including the AF distance indicator) was "jumping" around like crazy from one shot to the next. According to this indicator, the AF target was everything between 1.5 meters and infinity away from me. Hey, it´s a balcony on a house. These guys usually don´t move! ;)

!!! Interesting thing is that the problem only occurs if I use the hybrid AF fields in the middle of the view finder. Using the "outside" contrast AF fields the focus works perfectly, without any exceptions !!!

HI Daniel, did you use the XT10 in exactly the same way and same setup of AF? Was there anything in the XT2 that you could not set up the same - anything that had changed between the two models?

It may be helpful to post some images with full Exif.

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The DOF guide in the viewfinder has always been inaccurate and will show different distances when focusing on the same thing again and again.  From my experience it is therefore best ignored as it never appeared to accurately show the actual focus distance - I wouldn't interpret getting different distances on the scale to indicate the camera has mis-focused.

I'm not entirely sure what focus area mode you are in (I think the names may have changed since my Fuji cameras) - are you using the wide area?  or a large "zone" that can be moved around the frame?  or the single point square, which you can change size between S, M and L?  The L spot focusing point is much less accurate than the smallest one as you can't be use what it will focus on within the square.  I suggest use the smallest spot focus point.

ALso, what AF mode are you using?  You say AF-S - so no continuous AF or tracking AF or anything?

What about shutter priority?  I think the new cameras may have a mode that when turned on allows the shutter to be released even when focus isn't confirmed - is this off?

Replace the main circuit board?  That is just the default repair for electronics as the repair staff can't diagnose individual electronic problems.  I have the same thing with my central heating or washing machine - just replace the board and hope it fixes it!  I wouldn't interpret this as meaning there was anything wrong with your original camera.

I'm curious that you say the other field of the frame which only focuses with CDAF is accurate but the central area isn't (is the PDAF area marked in the viewfinder?).  That really makes me think it's menu options or something... It's hard to believe the design has the problem you report and nobody else has noticed, as you say other X-T2s you tried in the dealer behave the same (with their lenses or yours)?

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4 hours ago, artuk said:

I'm curious that you say the other field of the frame which only focuses with CDAF is accurate but the central area isn't (is the PDAF area marked in the viewfinder?).  That really makes me think it's menu options or something... It's hard to believe the design has the problem you report and nobody else has noticed, as you say other X-T2s you tried in the dealer behave the same (with their lenses or yours)?

I thought the same but the several new cameras tried and the repaired camera would would have been at factory default settings unless Daniel changed the settings. It is very strange if more than one unit behaved this way. I have seen other reports of focus problems with the XT2 but all turned out to be an error in the camera settings or misunderstanding by the user of the various modes.

BTW - the EVF distance and depth of field scales were fixed on XE2 onward. My distance and DoF scales are in my head and old style on my 14mm & 23mm lenses and legacy glass.

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thanks for your reply!
Just for clarification:

  • I used the X-T2 with exactly the same AF-settings like my X-T10 (of course, otherwise comparison would make no sense at all)
  • I tried the 2 other X-T2 from the camera dealer with both lenses, theirs and mine
  • I set up the X-T2 used for testing at the camera store exactly like my own X-T2 before the tests (of course, otherwise comparison would make no sense at all)
  • zone AF was not used, just a single small to medium size AF field in the center of the sensor
  • AF-S was used with priority on focus (not on shutter)  

In the viewfinder you can clearly distinguish between hybrid AF fields and contrast AF fields. Hybrid is everything in the center, all the fields at the sensor edge are contrast AF. This can also be read in the manual. Unfortunately there is no option to use the center fields in contrast AF mode only. Means: it cannot be changed in the menu.

Meanwhile (after testing other X-T2 and got some feedback form other users) I´m pretty sure that it is not caused by a wrong or not suitable configuration. I have quite some experience in serious photography and therefore I know that in most cases the problems are caused by the photographer, not by the equipment. But in this very case and after running a lot of tests I dare to say that the camera is the problem.

I think I´m not the only one who is affected. I posted a similar thread in a German forum some 1 or 2 months ago. Besides some "experts" who declared the problem as "non existing" (for...that which must not, cannot be ;)    ) I found quite a few people who actually have the same problem with their X-T2 and some Fuji lenses. Some of them sent their camera to Fuji and got it back with mostly "main board replaced" (as somebody mentioned: standard procedure if repair stuff have no clue) but the problem remains.

I´m really interested in hearing from X-T2 users here who have similar problems with their cameras. If they do not exist outside of Germany then it might be a problem caused by a subset of a subset of cameras shipped to Germany. Although this seems to be very unlikely (!)

Here are some examples. All shots taken with exactly same settings in a series under same conditions. By the way, this was not my X-T2 but the (brand new) one I have tested at the camera store.

full resolution, sharp

full resolution, blurred, out of focus

100% crop, sharp

100% crop, blurred, out of focus

Single field static AF (AF-S) has been used with medium size center field targeted on the "HOTEL" sign. In a series of 20 pictures, approx 25% were out of focus.


cheers,
Daniel

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random question - in the pictures that are out of focus, is *anything* actually in focus?

Just wondering if anything else is at play.

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The exif is the same for each but quite clearly the focus jumps from the distant center in one to the near lower left of frame in the other.

Does the focus point move in the same direction each time it is out of focus?

I'm flummoxed.

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1 hour ago, veejaycee said:

The exif is the same for each but quite clearly the focus jumps from the distant center in one to the near lower left of frame in the other.

Does the focus point move in the same direction each time it is out of focus?

I'm flummoxed.

in the bad photo, the only thing that is sharper than the good one is the "canon sony" photo shop sign in the bottom left... hard to know if the camera has deliberately focused on this or it's just coincidence that it's in focus.

there were some firmware issues with manual focus distances moving between shots before, but nothing like this with AF that I'm aware of.

Edited by artuk
changed analysis

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This is interesting. I can't offer much more than what others have said. But there is one thing on my XT-2 that I initially had turned on which caused a somewhat similar effect. 

(I don't have my camera with me, so I don't recall the exact setting name). I used to have something like the 'focus helper' feature turned on where the camera would keep focusing incrementally when turned on to achieve faster focus. I found that sometimes (more often than not) it missed focus when I clicked the shutter.

It could be that the older lens I used could not keep up with the minute adjustments that were occurring. This probably isn't your issue, I just thought I'd mention it.  

 

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I believe you may have discovered a legitimate problem with the XT2.  

Most will pass off the odd blurry image as photographer error.  I have myself.  I have shot several weddings since getting my XT2 (Sept 2016) and there have been a few times that I said to myself "I didn't have this many out of focus images on my two XT1's".   I thought that simply going from 16mp to 24mp (image sensor being more dense) camera shake was simply more evident and my technique was a bit rough.  I know this was an issue on other brands when people jumped from their 10mp cameras to 24 - 36mp and learned camera shake was more noticeable.   I'm sure my technique could use some tweaking. :)  But I believe you may have uncovered something.

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6 hours ago, raagamuffin said:

This is interesting. I can't offer much more than what others have said. But there is one thing on my XT-2 that I initially had turned on which caused a somewhat similar effect. 

(I don't have my camera with me, so I don't recall the exact setting name). I used to have something like the 'focus helper' feature turned on where the camera would keep focusing incrementally when turned on to achieve faster focus. I found that sometimes (more often than not) it missed focus when I clicked the shutter.

It could be that the older lens I used could not keep up with the minute adjustments that were occurring. This probably isn't your issue, I just thought I'd mention it.  

 

eye start focusing or similar? when you hold the viewfinder to your eye, the camera will start to AF on whatever is in the frame at the current AF point.

5 hours ago, AdamW said:

I believe you may have discovered a legitimate problem with the XT2.  

Most will pass off the odd blurry image as photographer error.  I have myself.  I have shot several weddings since getting my XT2 (Sept 2016) and there have been a few times that I said to myself "I didn't have this many out of focus images on my two XT1's".   I thought that simply going from 16mp to 24mp (image sensor being more dense) camera shake was simply more evident and my technique was a bit rough.  I know this was an issue on other brands when people jumped from their 10mp cameras to 24 - 36mp and learned camera shake was more noticeable.   I'm sure my technique could use some tweaking. :)  But I believe you may have uncovered something.

absolutely right that high resolution sensors need much better technique - I remember reading several reports from people going to 36Mp and getting lots of issues that lesser sensors had hidden.  I also know of one professional who went back to 16Mp from 24Mp as the denser sensor revealed more issues with things falling out of DOF, but where stopping down just led to more diffraction - so he used to down-sample 24Mp images to 16Mp!

I hope the O.P. gets this diagnosed if it is a genuine problem not limited to his camera.

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I wonder if the OP has tried the AF lock back button. I always got a better hit rate using it and when I've mentioned to others, they have too.

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On 12/02/2017 at 8:59 PM, veejaycee said:

The exif is the same for each but quite clearly the focus jumps from the distant center in one to the near lower left of frame in the other.

Does the focus point move in the same direction each time it is out of focus?

I'm flummoxed.

of course not. The green focus marker in the viewfinder stays in the middle and it goes green. Also in the EXIF data the focus point is always the same (3001, 2001 which means image center).

 

On 14/02/2017 at 2:59 PM, veejaycee said:

I believe the XT2 does have something like eye start AF.

 

no, it has not!
Would be very nice and helpful if people who does not have a X-T2 do not post any assumptions here. This will not help and only "spam" the thread.
Please don´t get me wrong, but I will help if we focus on the topic. Wild guess will not help at all.

 

19 hours ago, veejaycee said:

I wonder if the OP has tried the AF lock back button. I always got a better hit rate using it and when I've mentioned to others, they have too.

sure, he has ;)
But the AF button on the back is just another electrical contact which activates the very same AF system as when I use the half-pressed release button. Of course in a series of 20something pictures with locked(!) AF the sharpness will most likely be the same for every picture. And in case the first AF measurement was ok, all other pictures will be ok as well. In case it was wrong, all others will be wrong too. However, in every day life where you do not take 20 pictures of the same motive the AF-lock is not very useful. And this will not fix the problem.

Daniel

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On 13/02/2017 at 4:49 PM, AdamW said:

Most will pass off the odd blurry image as photographer error. 

that´s what I did first too. Of course!
Then, after too many blurry pictures, I started shooting test series. And they confirmed the problem. Not only with my X-T2 but with at least 3 others as well as with several lenses. And don´t forget: my X-T2 has been at Fuji 2 times for repair. Without any success. The same was reported by at least 1 photographer I know and maybe there are more.

All this will not happen so often if you use primes with wide open aperture and longer focal length. My X-T2 performs also well with the 55-200. It seems to be related to the X-T2 hybrid AF sensors in combination with stopped down wide angle lenses. Unfortunately the combination I´m using most often as a landscape photographer.

Would be VERY nice if one of you (who actually owns a X-T2 and may a 18-55 or 18-135) could do some test shots according to the setup I described in my first posting. I´m really curios if someone will get the same result.

Thanks!
Daniel

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What an appalling attitude for someone to join only to ask a question and then complain about the answers given because he has not been clear in the first place. When I asked about the focus point I meant the actual point of focus in the resulting mis-focused image - not the focus rectangle in your viewfinder.

By searching another forum I have found a likely answer to the same problem with the same camera but a different lens lens, it would be VERY nice if you go look for it yourself.

Do not accuse me of spamming the thread when I am trying to assist (inc searching other forums for you) you ungrateful.......

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15 hours ago, daniel-k said:


All this will not happen so often if you use primes with wide open aperture and longer focal length. My X-T2 performs also well with the 55-200. It seems to be related to the X-T2 hybrid AF sensors in combination with stopped down wide angle lenses. Unfortunately the combination I´m using most often as a landscape photographer.

Would be VERY nice if one of you (who actually owns a X-T2 and may a 18-55 or 18-135) could do some test shots according to the setup I described in my first posting. I´m really curios if someone will get the same result.

Thanks!
Daniel

it is well documented that wide angle lenses can cause focusing issues with SLR cameras and I think mirrorless cameras too. I've certainly had the problem. It is often attributed to the very great depth of field with wide angles combined with small apertures, and the tendency of subjects to be very small in the frame at wide angles of view. Is it possible that if the problem.only occurs with wider lenses that the PDAF is being confused by this effect?

I'm bowing out of this discussion now as I don't have an XT2 and don't want abuse by trying to help.

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update:

I´m right back from my camera dealer. After testing another (the 3rd one) X-T2 there I found that this one finally seems to be good. I was not able to detect the problems mentioned above with this camera. Fortunately, the dealer agreed to exchange my X-T2 with the new, tested one. So 140 days after purchase, after 2 unsuccessful repairs, a view weeks without X-T2 (repair time), lots of blurred images and a lot of frustration it looks like I finally found a X-T2 that is working well.

By the way: of course I used exactly the same settings like before. So it is definitely NOT a settings/configuration problem. There are good X-T2s... and obviously there are bad ones. Strange thing is that even after 2 repairs my first one was not working as expected. However, I will do a few more tests this weekend and if the new X-T2 pass them all I´m happy.

However, the whole story leaves a bad taste...

Daniel

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I had borrowed from Fujifilm Sweden one of the first X-T2 and I have encountered the same problem as you. Tested it with photographing ice hockey and basketball. After the first game, most of the images was blurry.
If you shoot a lot (every day) you learn quickly how the camera and lens is reacting in different situations. So ... from the last hockey game that I used X-T2 on, I saved over 80% of the high quality images for later use. Wrote a report of the problems to Fujifilm Sweden, who replied that they have never received any complaints about this model.
I chosed X-T2 as the best mirrorless camera 2016 on my blog, because I think it will be a winner in its class when it have been updated.
I decided to not buy it. I will continue to shoot with the amazing X-T1 :-)

 

iSkogen.jpg

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Hi everybody! I had exactly the same problem like daniel-k has with my Fuji X-T1. Same issues with lens, focus, e.t.c. Usually I do landscape photos on wide angle and timelapses. 20-30% shots are blurry :-(... Only one thing hepls - use prime lens with open aperture. When I zooming my 16-55 2.8 - it doesn't happens. With 16mm or 14mm doesn't happens as well... It is pity that problem was not solved in new model XT-2....

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I'm having the same problem. Two problems, that is:

  1. 18-55 seems to be very strongly varyying quality between the copies. The first i bought was totally soft, really rubbish. How did that ever pass the test, i have no idea. Repaired twice, still bad. Exchange lens still very soft - on one side. Now my dealer offered me his demo lens, because i had tested it as very sharp at 18mm. But at 55, it's also weak, on the left side. So...the 18-55 lens seems to have many severe problems. Big shame on Fuji, from my experiences so far.
  2. Autofocus XT-2. I got many blurry images. So, set it on a tripod, with the 10-24. At 24 mm i get many blurry images. The AF is very inaccurate or erratic. I will have it repaired/exchanged, and HOPE there's a fix. I'm wondering if maybe the AF System can not "see" fine structures, like fine branches, even though high contrast against the sky. That would be serious problems with landscape photography...attached you see a 100% crop.

FUjiXT2_10+24.jpg

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I think perhaps you are expecting too much of any AF system. Maybe the best way to explain is to ask a question. How does your camera know whether you are attempting to focus on the branches or the sky behind?

The contrast AF is box system rather than cross point. You can alter the size but not small enough to pick up a small branch or twig at distance. However, for landscape shooting surely you won't be focusing on the distant foliage but somewhere 1/3rd to midway using an appropriately small aperture for depth of field.

Having said all that - I'm pretty sure the general opinion of the 10-24mm is that 24mm is a weak point but I don't own one myself.

The 18-55mm softness is more of a surprise though. 55mm is again it's weakest performance but it should be acceptable for most purposes. The 18-55 is reckoned to be better than "kit lenses" of similar FL in other systems but of course most "kit lenses are very much a compromise. I can say that my copy is excellent - but still not as good as my primes. It is so useful as a walkaround when one does not have time to settle to take a picture but rather zoom, AF and press the shutter for a hoped for reasonable composition. However, if i was a full time zoom shooter rather than a prime lover, I would opt for the 16-55mm f2.8.

To test both these lenses you need to set the camera on a tripod and use manual focus with magnified view in the finder/screen + remote or delayed shutter. At least then you'll know if the lens is good and even across the field. If it is then either there is user error in the setup of the camera or the camera AF is not working correctly.

Regards, Vic

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thanks Vic. I don't know the details of the AF System. But no AF can usually focus on the sky, there's no contrast. So any system will pick what it will find, that being twigs/branches here, very distinct. And it does "find" them, very quickly. Just very erratic und inaccurate, which is weird, because the contrast is pretty high. Also had that problem with contrasty mountain pictures. I should note the Distance to the trees is about 70 meters, so it does not have to decide between close/distant branches. I mean in this case, the trees as an object are rather 2-dimensional than 3-dimensional. I do have a few shots that are very sharp at 24 mm!

18-55, yes its regarded rather good. Still lots of complsints about many samples. And since i tested 2 copies here, it is very weird how much the sharpness differs between them - depending on focal length, and position in the frame. On is a lefty, one is a righty, so to say. Heavily off centre, to say the least. Attached, 2 samples of the 18-55 in comparison. It's the right border (on the left the other sample is slightly better, but okay-ish with both).

Tripod setup, yeah. While a remote shutter should not be a point at 1/1000-2000s like i used.

regards, huck

 

Fuji 18-55.jpg

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6 hours ago, huck222 said:

I'm having the same problem. Two problems, that is:

  1. 18-55 seems to be very strongly varyying quality between the copies. The first i bought was totally soft, really rubbish. How did that ever pass the test, i have no idea. Repaired twice, still bad. Exchange lens still very soft - on one side. Now my dealer offered me his demo lens, because i had tested it as very sharp at 18mm. But at 55, it's also weak, on the left side. So...the 18-55 lens seems to have many severe problems. Big shame on Fuji, from my experiences so far.
  2. Autofocus XT-2. I got many blurry images. So, set it on a tripod, with the 10-24. At 24 mm i get many blurry images. The AF is very inaccurate or erratic. I will have it repaired/exchanged, and HOPE there's a fix. I'm wondering if maybe the AF System can not "see" fine structures, like fine branches, even though high contrast against the sky. That would be serious problems with landscape photography...attached you see a 100% crop.

FUjiXT2_10+24.jpg

I certainly found on earlier cameras that strong backlight and particularly bright point source side lighting could cause back focus problems, repeatedly.  Not sure if a bright sky or the sun out of the frame but in front of the camera could cause similar problems?

ultra wide lenses are well known to mis focus on very small details as everything is so small in the frame and the depth of field of the lens is very large, cause mis-focusing and focus issues

1 hour ago, huck222 said:

thanks Vic. I don't know the details of the AF System. But no AF can usually focus on the sky, there's no contrast. So any system will pick what it will find, that being twigs/branches here, very distinct. And it does "find" them, very quickly. Just very erratic und inaccurate, which is weird, because the contrast is pretty high. Also had that problem with contrasty mountain pictures. I should note the Distance to the trees is about 70 meters, so it does not have to decide between close/distant branches. I mean in this case, the trees as an object are rather 2-dimensional than 3-dimensional. I do have a few shots that are very sharp at 24 mm!

18-55, yes its regarded rather good. Still lots of complsints about many samples. And since i tested 2 copies here, it is very weird how much the sharpness differs between them - depending on focal length, and position in the frame. On is a lefty, one is a righty, so to say. Heavily off centre, to say the least. Attached, 2 samples of the 18-55 in comparison. It's the right border (on the left the other sample is slightly better, but okay-ish with both).

Tripod setup, yeah. While a remote shutter should not be a point at 1/1000-2000s like i used.

regards, huck

 

Fuji 18-55.jpg

did you turn the OSS off?

OSS on with a tripod can cause unpredictable results with softness and blurring.  in other systems I have used it can occasionally cause softness and blurring on one side of the frame.

Alternatively, when OSS is off, the lens elements have to be "parked", and may not be 100% in the correct position - leading to some softness in some places in the frame

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