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huck222   
1 minute ago, artuk said:

ultra wide lenses are well known to mis focus on very small details as everything is so small in the frame and the depth of field of the lens is very large, cause mis-focusing and focus issues

I also had this problem with the 35 f2. Which really is not wide. Well, and i didn't have such crass problems with the Canon 5D II and 6D - about which they all say, that Fuji AF is on par with, or better ...So it looks like fine structures require manual focus. Unheard of, to this extent. Which really really sucks. i mean, never autofocus on woods? Frightening if you ask me. Didnt consider these branches to cause delicate issues, i mean come on. A camera chould be able to tell that blurr from sharpness. If it finds it once, it should always find it. oh boy :(

10 minutes ago, artuk said:

did you turn the OSS off?

OSS on with a tripod can cause unpredictable results with softness and blurring.  in other systems I have used it can occasionally cause softness and blurring on one side of the frame.

it was Off. But anyway, at 1/1000 sec, if that would be a problem, THEN we really would have a problem.

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artuk   
1 minute ago, huck222 said:

I also had this problem with the 35 f2. Which really is not wide. Well, and i didn't have such crass problems with the Canon 5D II and 6D - about which they all say, that Fuji AF is on par with, or better ...So it looks like fine structures require manual focus. Unheard of, to this extent. Which really really sucks. i mean, never autofocus on woods? Frightening if you ask me. Didnt consider these branches to cause delicate issues, i mean come on. A camera chould be able to tell that blurr from sharpness. If it finds it once, it should always find it. oh boy :(

are you aware that the focus system in mirrorless cameras and the focus system in SLRs is a totally different technology, and therefore works in a different way, which therefore means that there are different considerations when focusing?

SLR focus systems will often front or back focus with fast aperture lenses, for example, which is a problem that closed-loop focus systems found in mirrorless cameras generally does not have.

however, the focus box on a mirrorless camera is not the same as a point or cross type AF sensor in an SLR, and therefore will react in a different way to different focusing challenges.

I haven't owned an X camera since the X Pro 1, which certainly had it's own focus challenges (mostly speed, also mis-focusing when point light sources faced the front of the lens, even out of shot).  I now use a different mirrorless system and in general it is very accurate, although occasionally gets confused.  however, it's not quite as fast as an SLR in some circumstances, but in most situations is just as fast or better than the last FF SLR I owned.

I'm certainly not saying your camera or lens doesn't have a problem, although its hard to see how this could be such a generalised problem that hasn't been noticed by others?

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huck222   
15 minutes ago, artuk said:

I certainly found on earlier cameras that strong backlight and particularly bright point source side lighting could cause back focus problems, repeatedly.  Not sure if a bright sky or the sun out of the frame but in front of the camera could cause similar problems?

this sky is certainly not very bright, so that should be no issue

1 minute ago, artuk said:

are you aware that the focus system in mirrorless cameras and the focus system in SLRs is a totally different technology, and therefore works in a different way, which therefore means that there are different considerations when focusing?

yeah, but i'd just expect it to work decently on contrasty objects now, come on

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huck222   
6 hours ago, veejaycee said:

However, for landscape shooting surely you won't be focusing on the distant foliage but somewhere 1/3rd to midway using an appropriately small aperture for depth of field.

Yeah.. I am familiar with general DOF rules. But this is about AF acurracy here =). If i point the camera at a tree, then it's about that tree being in focus, not 1/3 stuff =)

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I know this is perhaps a reach, but have you all checked the list of Fuji LENS firmware updates.  Many were originated to deal with focus issues---I suggest you look through the list and make sure your lens doesn't need it. 

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razibus   

Hello Guys, 

I am french, using the XT2 since april 2017. I am on a bicycle trip from Turkey to China, so I have an intensive use of my Fuji XT2 (firmware 2.0) and 18-55mm. I used to have a Fuji X100 (first version) and I never had such a problem. 

I do have the exact problem as Daniel and I am very sad since some of my shoots are very blurry... I realized that the focus indicator was very random. It seems that when the camera focuses at "infinite", the pictures is blurry. Sometimes, the indicator is jumping from 1m to infinite for a landscape.... I never focus on sky, and I try to focus on a contrasted area. I usually take contrasted landscape. It also happens when I took close subject. 

I did not make such an accurate analysis as Daniel, but I tried a lot of different combinations : central, square and wide AF, and it does not seem to correct the problem. I cannot send back my fuji to my local dealer. 

Do you have some updates about this problem ?

https://lespralinesenvadrouille.com/

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huck222   

Hi razibus, sorry to hear that. You should really have it serviced. I sent my cam in, and they said "AF adjusted as a precaution, however it should be a lens problem not a camera problem." That's BS, since i had the blurry pics with 3 lenses! However, they seem to have fixed the problem, i have very few blurry pics now. I guess they do not admit that something was worng with the new camera, they just fix it silently.

But the focus indicator is still sometimes random, jumps between 2m and infinite. I talked to the service guy and his boss on the phone, and they seem to run a denial policy. Its really really frustrating experience because they express thorough indifference. Not a word of "sorry for the inconvenience", no nothing. He blathered about 20% around the AF field being taken into account, thus possible focus indicator jumps. What he said was "well, its not a digital inch rule, but rather a indicator for DOF." I asked back, but DOF depends directly on the distance, so a DOF indicator with wrong distance makes no sense. Now they just did not respond. So i guess they have problems (MAYBE ONLY SOME COPIES??) but wont say so. Gonna wirte a letter to Japan HQ i guess, because they should take their custumers seriously, especially working pros relying on their gear. The service i experienced so far is unacceptable.

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artuk   
27 minutes ago, huck222 said:

Hi razibus, sorry to hear that. You should really have it serviced. I sent my cam in, and they said "AF adjusted as a precaution, however it should be a lens problem not a camera problem." That's BS, since i had the blurry pics with 3 lenses! However, they seem to have fixed the problem, i have very few blurry pics now. I guess they do not admit that something was worng with the new camera, they just fix it silently.

But the focus indicator is still sometimes random, jumps between 2m and infinite. I talked to the service guy and his boss on the phone, and they seem to run a denial policy. Its really really frustrating experience because they express thorough indifference. Not a word of "sorry for the inconvenience", no nothing. He blathered about 20% around the AF field being taken into account, thus possible focus indicator jumps. What he said was "well, its not a digital inch rule, but rather a indicator for DOF." I asked back, but DOF depends directly on the distance, so a DOF indicator with wrong distance makes no sense. Now they just did not respond. So i guess they have problems (MAYBE ONLY SOME COPIES??) but wont say so. Gonna wirte a letter to Japan HQ i guess, because they should take their custumers seriously, especially working pros relying on their gear. The service i experienced so far is unacceptable.

My experience with older X cameras was that the focus distance / DOF scale in the viewfinder was best ignored.  You could focus on the same.thing 3 times and get a completely different reading each time.  It's worrying that it appears so inaccurate since it raises questions about how its being derived (other systems use a positional sensor inside the lens as part of the af drive mechanism that's a distance encoder) and also what else it may be used for within the camera.  I didn't find thr display as indicative of incorrect focus - just that the display was wrong.  Given this inaccuracy, and the extremely conservative approach Fuji used to calculate DOF (always much too small), it made the scale mostly pointless for me.

since focusing is off the main sensor using software to analyze the image, I'm always intrigued what Fuji and others "adjust" to fix focus problems.  since focusing is effectively a closed loop system, it should self correct for bad lenses etc.  In SLRs there are definitely adjustments that can be made to the AF array - in mirrorless I always thought the "adjustment" explanation was frankly BS.

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huck222   
26 minutes ago, artuk said:

  Given this inaccuracy, and the extremely conservative approach Fuji used to calculate DOF (always much too small), it made the scale mostly pointless for me.

did you switch to "film based" instead of "pixel based". That makes way more sense!

 

31 minutes ago, artuk said:

raises questions about how its being derived (other systems use a positional sensor inside the lens as part of the af drive mechanism that's a distance encoder) and also what else it may be used for within the camera. 

right, my thoughts exactly. I asked the Service guy, but they just do not bother to answer.. So poor.

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artuk   
49 minutes ago, huck222 said:

did you switch to "film based" instead of "pixel based". That makes way more sense!

 

right, my thoughts exactly. I asked the Service guy, but they just do not bother to answer.. So poor.

"film based" wasnt an option in any version of the firmware I had after 2-3 years of the X Pro 1 release, that option was added more recently.

with a closed loop system focusing off the sensor, the only thing that could be adjusted is software. I know that Minolta used to test focusing on each film slr before it left the factory and add a configuration value into the camera to correct for any slight manufacturing focus inaccuracy.  I don't know if an equivalent exists in mirrorless camera firmware - but I have no idea what would need correcting in a closed loop system, because I can't see how something in the camera could be misaligned in the first place when focusing is performed from live view off the sensor

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Olibaer   

I recently tested two X-T2 plus 18-55mm kits from different online shops in Germany and found that especially many landscape shots were blurry with both of them, regardless whether I used wide angle or zoom.

I would say that only 1/3 of all of those shots were OK, another 1/3 were just acceptable and the last 1/3 were really bad, especially when looking at off-center parts of the frame (which still should have been in focus - to verify that I shot a few pictures with my old Sony 77 using similar settings, all of which were sharp from center to the corners).

The white house I focused on in the center should have given a usable contrast for the AF system to lock on (single-point AF-S with focus priority, F5.6; OIS on or off didn't matter). It was generally sharper, however even there was a noticeable difference between the OK and the bad shots. The attached examples (bad shot at the top and OK shot at the bottom) are cropped and show the white house which was originally in the center now in the lower left corner.

On shorter focus distances, the AF system of the X-T2 worked better, but I also managed to get a few blurred shots there. Things were also noticeably better when using higher aperture values such as F8 or when focusing manually.

I expect a reliable AF system when spending that kind of money on a new camera. Therefore, I've now returned both camera kits and won't try a third one but rather continue to look somewhere else in the market.

DSCF0042_crop.JPG

DSCF0039_crop.JPG

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huck222   

oh my sounds awful. Sounds like they dont test the gear after assembling it.

Note that the 18-55 has many bad samples. I returned 2, before i got a sharp one. Now i'm very happy, because it is way sharper than the heavy old canon 24-70. Also note that the 18-55 has quite some field curvature, look it up on photozone.de. If you want the Fuji system, or those features (....) then it might be worth while having the camera serviced - in my case they resolved the focus issues. Cost me months of anger, but hey, also had quite a few terrible experiences with Canon "repairs". I sure hope they improve big time..

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razibus   
13 hours ago, Christopher said:

Welcome @razibus

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Does this happen when using your camera on a tripod, or handheld as well?

@huck222 Were you ever able to find a solution?

Hello @Christopher ! 

 

I use it handheld (traveling light). I never had such problems with my fuji X100 (first gen) last year on a 3 months bike trip... I have to wait until mi october to send it back to Fuji.... it is very fustrating

 

Thanks for your answers !

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Thank you for sharing your experience @Olibaer!

Reading through all this again, it just occurred to me that the 18-55mm 'kit lens' has been manufactured in different factories in, I believe, 3 different countries over the last few years. Perhaps the later copies are not as sharp, or quality control has changed somehow? Cost cutting measures, perhaps? Hopefully it's just an isolated issue and a bad batch.

My XF 18-55mm lens is a 1st generation that was bundled with an X-E1 (Early 2013), it was made in Japan. The bundle price was a bargain, and I fully expected to sell it quickly because I prefer primes, but I'll be damned if it didn't win me over. I love this lens, and it has never let me down. I will admit I haven't used it much for landscapes though, I use mine mostly for event coverage.

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artuk   
1 hour ago, Christopher said:

Thank you for sharing your experience @Olibaer!

Reading through all this again, it just occurred to me that the 18-55mm 'kit lens' has been manufactured in different factories in, I believe, 3 different countries over the last few years. Perhaps the later copies are not as sharp, or quality control has changed somehow? Cost cutting measures, perhaps? Hopefully it's just an isolated issue and a bad batch.

My XF 18-55mm lens is a 1st generation that was bundled with an X-E1 (Early 2013), it was made in Japan. The bundle price was a bargain, and I fully expected to sell it quickly because I prefer primes, but I'll be damned if it didn't win me over. I love this lens, and it has never let me down. I will admit I haven't used it much for landscapes though, I use mine mostly for event coverage.

That's worrying - the  copy I owned was a very early one, and was generally excellent - although perhaps Fuji don't use the same advertising now, they previously used to advertise in Europe with slogans about "Japanese quality" and that the products were made in Japan... shame on them if quality has slipped by moving manufacturing elsewhere.  (I don't have an issue in general with country of manufacture - Sony and Nikon manufacture in Thailand and generally report good quality - but Minolta manufactured kit lenses in Malaysia and the material quality was terrible, and there were rumours Sony tried to manufacture a Zeiss brand lens model in China and had to abandon the relationship because the quality control was so poor.  Relationships between companies often mean equipment is manufactured by a variety of third parties - Sony part own Tamron, who used to make some lenses for Minolta, who were sub-contracted by Leica to make cameras and lenses, and Leica get some products made by Panasonic, whilst Zeiss have out-sourced to many including Cosina who make some of the MF lenses, whilst Tamron are rumoured to have designed and manufactured some of the Zeiss autofocus "Batis" lenses they sell.... I could go on... you get the idea... half the time you don't really know who made something, as it's probably not the name on the box).

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Olibaer   

Hi @Christopher and @artuk, in the two camera kits I received, both the camera bodies as well as the 18-55mm lenses were "Made in Japan".

I had a look at the serial numbers while testing both kits (but unfortunately I didn't write them down and can't find them now that I've returned the kits). Anyway, as far as I remember, they were only about 500 apart from each other, so they both could well have been from the same batch.

On Friday, I bought an Olympus E-M1 II together with the versatile 12-100mm lens and I'm very satisfied with the results from the first tests I did over the weekend. By the way, both the Olympus body and the lens were "Made in Vietnam"...

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artuk   
1 hour ago, Olibaer said:

Hi @Christopher and @artuk, in the two camera kits I received, both the camera bodies as well as the 18-55mm lenses were "Made in Japan".

I had a look at the serial numbers while testing both kits (but unfortunately I didn't write them down and can't find them now that I've returned the kits). Anyway, as far as I remember, they were only about 500 apart from each other, so they both could well have been from the same batch.

On Friday, I bought an Olympus E-M1 II together with the versatile 12-100mm lens and I'm very satisfied with the results from the first tests I did over the weekend. By the way, both the Olympus body and the lens were "Made in Vietnam"...

Have you decided not to bother with an X-T2 and instead go for Olympus?  I was astounded by the UK price of that body, more than some full frame cameras - there seemed to be some general disquiet from Olympus users about the price increase compared to the mark 1 camera.  However, the OM-D series have always been well reviewed and liked, it seems.

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Olibaer   
27 minutes ago, artuk said:

Have you decided not to bother with an X-T2 and instead go for Olympus?  I was astounded by the UK price of that body, more than some full frame cameras - there seemed to be some general disquiet from Olympus users about the price increase compared to the mark 1 camera.  However, the OM-D series have always been well reviewed and liked, it seems.

Well, I might have been happy with the X-T2 if one of the kits I tried out had worked correctly, but after the experience I had I decided to buy something else. You're right that the Olympus is quite expensive and I think I wouldn't have bought it at the regular price, which is 1.999 Euros for the body plus 1.299 Euros for the 12-100mm lens. However, a local shop had a special offer last week which was 2.699 Euros combined for the body plus the lens. So, at 700 Euros more compared to the Fuji kit, for which I also got a better and more versatile lens than the 18-55mm, I thought it was a really good deal. All photos I have shot so far were sharp from center to the edges and I even managed to do sharp 1-second shots without a tripod due to their advanced IS system.

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artuk   
10 hours ago, Olibaer said:

Well, I might have been happy with the X-T2 if one of the kits I tried out had worked correctly, but after the experience I had I decided to buy something else. You're right that the Olympus is quite expensive and I think I wouldn't have bought it at the regular price, which is 1.999 Euros for the body plus 1.299 Euros for the 12-100mm lens. However, a local shop had a special offer last week which was 2.699 Euros combined for the body plus the lens. So, at 700 Euros more compared to the Fuji kit, for which I also got a better and more versatile lens than the 18-55mm, I thought it was a really good deal. All photos I have shot so far were sharp from center to the edges and I even managed to do sharp 1-second shots without a tripod due to their advanced IS system.

Over the last few weeks I have read about 3 or 4 different problems that various Fuji bodies seem to have - X Pro 2 has an issue where the shutter won't fire the first time it is released after power on; X-T2 users having problems with their camera not turning on and reporting an error after firmware update; firmware for the X100 causing an issue with the focus distance scale or the actual focusing.  A member here has reported a sorry tale of problems with his X Pro 2, which may be isolated issues, but don't look good for a £1500 camera.  Personally, I've never had these kind of issues with other brands of camera, but maybe Fuji don't too much because of all the uncritical positive online coverage they get from bloggers and product placement.

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JPaul   

Hello,

Reading with interest what relate Daniel, I have exactly the same problems!  I'm in France (excuse for my english...) At the beginning it was from time to time and I thought I did some errors... I just looked the landscape pictures I did today ( XT-2 with 10-24) and it's blurry for 1 picture on 4 or 5, I recently update with 2.10 firmware ??  I will give more precisions  later...

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JPaul   

Yes...I just translate what I send to Fuji support:

"From the beginning I had randomly in the order of 3 to 4% blurry images without I feel the need to investigate further and imagining possible errors on my part.
This time the doubt is no longer allowed  and I expose the problem to you hoping to be clear and fairly concise.

On a shooting of 27 images 12 are totally blurred and therefore unusable. With the XT2 (version 2.10, serial number 63M63136) and 10-24mm zoom, AF S option zone (3x3), Raw + Jpeg on card 2
At the shooting nothing detectable the collimators seem to hang the subject, on the other hand to the examination of the images one can not even guess the focus area retained.
Note that this is true when shooting landscape, I do not remember this problem on subjects close together."

Bad and good picture just a few seconds later...

 

 

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JPaul   

I use Priority AF, there's no alert about AF, the green indicator lights so it says all is OK...

May be the problem elsewhere while writing to sd card for example, I don't know ...

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