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Zaltin

Hi all, 

I usually have my XT-2 set to MS+ES (in case of lots of sun, e.g.) However, later this week I'm going to shoot a workshop where there'll be readings, so will have to set the camera to ES to operate as silently as possible (the focusing motor on the XF56 mm can't be helped, of course). 

Any thoughts/advice/caveats when taking candid portraits with Electronic Shutter alone? 

Cheers, O. 

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Greyelm

I don't have an X-T2 but I have read a number of posts highlighting issues with the use of electronic shutter under some fluorescent lights. I suggest doing a Google search where you should find examples. 

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veejaycee

Any E shutter can show barring at certain shutter speeds depending on the type of artificial lighting.

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throwfirewoodatfuji

Yeah, not to overstate what has been said, but the flourescent "barring" is bad with ES.

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Petrus

Also ANY movement can create strange distortion effects on heads and hands... The real exposure/scan time is something like 1/15 sec. So the electronic shutter is good only for truly stationary subjects.

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dem

You can stop the banding under fluorescent light if you use a right shutter speed. In Europe, where the mains are 50 Hz, the light flickers every 1/100 sec, so if you use shutter speed 1/100, 1/50, 1/30, 1/25 you will catch a whole number of "flicks" and each line of pixels will be exposed evenly. If you are in the US, adjust accordingly: 1/125, 1/60, 1/40, 1/30.

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K1W1_Mk2
On 2017-5-16 at 5:01 PM, Zaltin said:

Any thoughts/advice/caveats when taking candid portraits with Electronic Shutter alone? 

Cheers, O. 

Turn all the camera sounds down to zero and turn ES off and only use MS. ES causes more image problems that it solves and is really only a marketing gimmick that IMO should not be on the camera in the first place.

X-T2 cameras are not particularly noisey anyway and in a room full of people shuffling and sneezing and doing all that stuff the noise from the camera will not be heard by anybody other than you. If you are taking photos in any sort of official capacity there is a certain noise associated with photography and if the organisers or participants want photos they need to accept the very slight noise. If it's a workshop with readings I'm assuming most people will be seated in which case you moving around taking shots will cause more distraction then any noise your camera could make.

If you are in the US the lights run on 60hz frequency, in Europe or most of the rest of the world they are 50hz. Use a shutter speed that is an exact multiplier of the frequency say 1/180 sec in the USA or 1/200 sec in Europe. That should stop you getting strange lighting issues in your shots.

 

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Petrus
8 hours ago, dem said:

You can stop the banding under fluorescent light if you use a right shutter speed. In Europe, where the mains are 50 Hz, the light flickers every 1/100 sec, so if you use shutter speed 1/100, 1/50, 1/30, 1/25 you will catch a whole number of "flicks" and each line of pixels will be exposed evenly. If you are in the US, adjust accordingly: 1/125, 1/60, 1/40, 1/30.

Does not work with electronic shutter, as the scanning speed is 1/15 sec, no matter where the exposure speed is set at. You will get banding, in different colors even.

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dem
On 2017-5-18 at 3:10 AM, K1W1_Mk2 said:

Use a shutter speed that is an exact multiplier of the frequency say 1/180 sec in the USA or 1/200 sec in Europe. That should stop you getting strange lighting issues in your shots.

Unfortunately, the maximum shutter speed you can get away with is 1/125 sec in the USA and 1/100 sec in Europe:

https://www.getdpi.com/forum/fuji/56729-fuji-x-electronic-shutter-test-banding.html

https://happyphotodad.wordpress.com/2015/08/14/fuji-x-t1-electronic-shutter/

http://m43photo.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/gh3-electronic-shutter.html

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52110426

 

On 2017-5-18 at 7:12 AM, Petrus said:

Does not work with electronic shutter, as the scanning speed is 1/15 sec, no matter where the exposure speed is set at. You will get banding, in different colors even.

It evidently works for other people.

1/15 sec (in fact it had improved to about 1/22 sec on the X-T2 and X-Pro2) is the time difference between when the very first and the very last line of pixels is read out. The exposure of each pixel is still defined by the shutter speed of 1/100 sec or whatever we set it to. The scanning time of 1/15 sec on the X-T1 or 1/22 sec on the X-T2 defines the number of dark bands in the image, respectively about 6.7 and 4.5 under 50 Hz, but it has no effect on how long each pixel is exposed to light.

I think you might get colour banding only with multiple light sources that have different colours, e.g. neon lamps on the street, though I could not find any examples on Google.

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Petrus

You can get color banding in a room where there are several different hue fluorescent lights, connected to different phases of the AC grid.

Thank you for explaining the difference between scanning speed and shutter speed for those who did not know it. 

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artuk
On ‎18‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 3:10 AM, K1W1_Mk2 said:

Turn all the camera sounds down to zero and turn ES off and only use MS. ES causes more image problems that it solves and is really only a marketing gimmick that IMO should not be on the camera in the first place.

X-T2 cameras are not particularly noisey anyway and in a room full of people shuffling and sneezing and doing all that stuff the noise from the camera will not be heard by anybody other than you. If you are taking photos in any sort of official capacity there is a certain noise associated with photography and if the organisers or participants want photos they need to accept the very slight noise. If it's a workshop with readings I'm assuming most people will be seated in which case you moving around taking shots will cause more distraction then any noise your camera could make.

If you are in the US the lights run on 60hz frequency, in Europe or most of the rest of the world they are 50hz. Use a shutter speed that is an exact multiplier of the frequency say 1/180 sec in the USA or 1/200 sec in Europe. That should stop you getting strange lighting issues in your shots.

 

The electronic shutter supported by the sensor in that camera is not a "global" electronic shutter, and therefore cannot read off thr entire sensor in one go near instantaneously - hence the issues. Some newer model sensors such as some Sony models are close to being "global" or are so fast to read out that the issues appear to be minimal.  I am convinced hat within the next 1-2 generations or cameras a mechanical shutter will not be required, but for now I agree with you it can cause issues and looks good for marketing.  It's partly a reflection that many cameras can't use shutter speeds more than 1/4000s, a somewhat "consumer"-grade value compared to some.professional SLRs that cost thousands.  The move to electronic global shutter will be another "democratisation" od such features/spec as very expensive fine grade mechanical engineering will no longer be required.  Full frame mirrorless cameras already have less than half the moving parts of DSLR equivalents, making them much easier and cheaper to make, and constantly eroding any perceived benefit that Canon and Nikon models have.

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