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topgazza

X100 fixed lens or X10 Zoom ?

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I sent my X10 back for a sensor change and despite the usual superb Fuji customer service in the UK they seemed to take ages despite an email saying it was on its way back. So I politely complained and they refunded my money. I was a bit taken by surprise but kudos to them.

I am about to but another X10 from them as I miss it but I then thought would an X100 be better and how people who have one get "used" to the fixed 23mm lens. I used the zoom on the x10 a lot to compose different shot but is the X100 so much better to warrant not having that ?

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It's something I wondered about as well, having an X10 but could still return and swap for an X100 - I know the X100 is technically better but that lack of zoom is a concern. It's ok to "zoom with your feet" but that doesn't help with a wildlife shot or something across a lake, tall building feature etc... Not that a 4x zoom is exactly fantastic in that regard either!

I guess a large factor is the type of photography you do, can always crop to a degree. Would be interesting to hear from those with or have used both as to how much of an issue it is. (or indeed any prime vs zoom comparison I guess!)

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I get both sides of the debate. I did find I used the zoom for composing shots in camera and also for fairly close up shots of things like flowers where there was a fence or it was difficult to get closer. I know people who mainly use a 35mm 1.8 prime (50mm @ 35mm equiv)on their DSLR. But as a grab and go alternative to my DSLR where I have a 16-105 lens would I miss that 4 x zoom of the X10 ? Its not a massive zoom as jim points out but it does offer some flexibility.

As I said before is the X100 quality that much better than the already excellent X10 to justify the extra cost. Thats ignoring the nice things like the EVF etc

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Good point about the viewfinder - I know it's supposed to be a positive but coming from a Sony Nex to X10 I never use it out of habit! I fear it would be a wasted feature with me (also don't really want "nose grease" on the LCD!) :D

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"Zooming with your feet" is rather an over-simplication of focal length, and is only a solution if the reason you are zooming is because you can't be bothered to walk a little closer! The main effect of a telephoto (namely compression of perspective) is not something you cannot emulate with a wide angle, no matter how far you walk!

I find that the majority of my landscape shots are taken at the long end of the range of the X10. I live in the South Downs of the UK, which is not exactly the Grand Canyon - it has gentle slopes and repeating patterns that in most cases can really only be captured well with a telephoto - using a wide angle it would all just look flat and boring! This is why as much as I like the idea of the X100 (and the increase in IQ), it just wouldn't fit the bill for me. The x10, on the other hand has a great range for walking and cycling in my area.

"Horses for courses", as they say...

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I did find on my original X10 that I used the OVF from time to time when the light was very bright. Had to trust the "bleep" that I had focused on the right thing so it really only worked well for some shots. I use the OVF on my Sony A580 most of the time so its a bit of a concious thing not to have it, in effect. I have wondered if Fuji will bring out a X11 with a decent OVF with data showing but who knows or what effect that would have on the price...upwards ....

My instinct despite getting p3t3or point is the X10. Its a refurb bargain at the moment

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Horses For Courses - exactly.

I love my X10, and the freedom the zoom (and better focussing speed) gives me is a great advantage. There is NO DOUBT the IQ is superior on the X100. Its amazing to me.

Do I regret not buying the X100 originally? Yeah, kinda. Do I regret purchasing the X10? No way.

Tough call - good luck with that! :-)

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"Zooming with your feet" is rather an over-simplication of focal length, and is only a solution if the reason you are zooming is because you can't be bothered to walk a little closer! The main effect of a telephoto (namely compression of perspective) is not something you cannot emulate with a wide angle, no matter how far you walk!

I find that the majority of my landscape shots are taken at the long end of the range of the X10. I live in the South Downs of the UK, which is not exactly the Grand Canyon - it has gentle slopes and repeating patterns that in most cases can really only be captured well with a telephoto - using a wide angle it would all just look flat and boring! This is why as much as I like the idea of the X100 (and the increase in IQ), it just wouldn't fit the bill for me. The x10, on the other hand has a great range for walking and cycling in my area.

"Horses for courses", as they say...

That's something that has crossed my mind. The ability of a zoom to "compress" the view especially on those flatish landscapes is not to be ignored. I found I used the X10 at 112mm for fairly close shots as well and I think that flexibility, again, is something I enjoy. In some respects its a tough call indeed.

The excellent Fujishop people have promised that they will find a refurb X10 with the new sensor in as well. How helpful can those people be without actually hand delivering it themselves ?

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I also think that the difference in IQ is mainly an issue if the X10, for example, was bad. Its not of course and I find the X10 IQ to be astounding and on Velvia the colour rendition just top class

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Well...pressed the button on the X10 again as it sits above my Panny TZ10 as my grab and go with a bit of flexibility...but higher IQ. Appreciate everyones comments as it was a close call. Both are quite superb cameras......

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I think the cameras are so different that you have to decide based on what you want ot use it for. Me, I'm trying to get into street photography and the X100 is satisfying my needs nicely, but you say you used the zoom a lot, and landscapes were mentioned, in which case the X10 is a no brainer.

Or you could always get both - could you stretch the refund to a couple of second hands???

Also, FWIW, I do not own a X10, but the images I have seen make me want one. There is someone on here posted a load of concert photos. The zoom was a must and the resulting pictures were outstanding.

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I did check for second hand X100's but they are far and few between and fetching high prices...understandably so. The X10 will do for now as the one I had originally took stunning pictures and maybe the next thing will be to replace my DSLR with the X Pro 1....

Saving already....

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It's something I wondered about as well, having an X10 but could still return and swap for an X100 - I know the X100 is technically better but that lack of zoom is a concern. It's ok to "zoom with your feet" but that doesn't help with a wildlife shot or something across a lake, tall building feature etc... Not that a 4x zoom is exactly fantastic in that regard either!

I guess a large factor is the type of photography you do, can always crop to a degree. Would be interesting to hear from those with or have used both as to how much of an issue it is. (or indeed any prime vs zoom comparison I guess!)

I have both the X10 and X100. By far, and I mean BY FAR the better camera is the X100. High ISO performance is staggering. ISO6400 is VERY useable. I find ISO3200 unusable with the X10. The X100's viewfinder is just amazing to shoot with. Being able to see outside the shot when using the OVF is an incredible asset to your photography. You can watch your shot develop and fire when ready.

The X10 has an excellent lens. Very very very sharp. The X10's macro ability is more interesting to me because of the zoom. The 10 has a nice wide angle setting, however, since I bought the wide angle adapter for the X100, that advantage has vanished.

The X10's lens has a different drawing style than the X100. Sometimes I like a switch so will grab the X10 for variation.

Money is not a concern for me, so I have both. If I had to pick one, it would be the X100 without a second of delay as it is by far, by a dozen miles, the better camera.

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I have both the X10 and X100. By far, and I mean BY FAR the better camera is the X100. High ISO performance is staggering. ISO6400 is VERY useable. I find ISO3200 unusable with the X10. The X100's viewfinder is just amazing to shoot with. Being able to see outside the shot when using the OVF is an incredible asset to your photography. You can watch your shot develop and fire when ready.

The X10 has an excellent lens. Very very very sharp. The X10's macro ability is more interesting to me because of the zoom. The 10 has a nice wide angle setting, however, since I bought the wide angle adapter for the X100, that advantage has vanished.

The X10's lens has a different drawing style than the X100. Sometimes I like a switch so will grab the X10 for variation.

Money is not a concern for me, so I have both. If I had to pick one, it would be the X100 without a second of delay as it is by far, by a dozen miles, the better camera.

Thanks for the info! I think I'll try and spend a day shooting with the X10 at 35mm and see how it goes... :)

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I like the X10 and now that I have the new sensor I regard it as my ideal Travel Camera.

Personally I would take an X10 over an X100 any time and here's why..

I'm now on my 3rd X100.

All the hype about what wonderful images it takes is to my mind just that -HYPE

Slowly we have seen Fuji reveal on their website why images with the X100 are so soft.

It was designed to achieve max resolution at F4 and F5.6 and that softness gets worse the nearer you focus. By the time you get to macro you should be using F4 or better still F8 to get sharp results.

This is evidently the result of a deliberate design policy ( see the official X100 website )

Compared to my Leica X1 ,Fuji images are good but with different colours and excellent DR but they don't "pop" ; great for some shots but not others. It is a niche machine.

And then there is the X100 reliability to worry about.

Copy number 2 went back as it kept locking up but we know that the X100 is particularly susceptible to use in Apple Macs/Ipads , certain SD cards. Copy no 1 was too soft.

And now with copy no 3 I just hope that sticky blades are a thing of the past (S/N 21N)

The X100 is the most disappointing camera I've bought over the last 5 years but lovely to hold and look at.

High ISO Noise is not a problem.

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All the hype about what wonderful images it takes is to my mind just that -HYPE

You must have missed the tens of thousands of wonderful images that the X100 has created, posted on flickr, 500pix, here, and dozens of other places across the net.

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It was designed to achieve max resolution at F4 and F5.6 and that softness gets worse the nearer you focus. By the time you get to macro you should be using F4 or better still F8 to get sharp results.

99% of the lenses ever made get sharper 1 or two stops from wide open. This bothers you why?

Close focusing causes depth of field to fall off a cliff. Shooting anywhere, ANYWHERE near wide open is destined for a huge part of their image to be out of focus. I have shot thousands of macro images and never would dream of using anything as wide as f/8. The vast majority of my macro images are at f/16 or smaller, trying for maximum depth of field.

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The X100 is ideal for soft subjects where rich and creamy colours make the image work . That's why I have one. Lots of fine examples all over the web.

It is a fascinating lens.

However , it is not ideal for technical subjects where resolution is important and when I talk about the fall off in sharpness at reduced distances I am not talking about reduced depth of field.

I believe that the lens design follows Japanese ideals where asthetics are important creating images of a more ethereal nature. For me the Germanic ideals of Technical excellence that create the pin sharp Leica or Zeiss Lenses are more to my taste.

The X10 lens is rather more conventional.

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Used to do zoom until I force myself to shoot with primes. When the x100 comes, I got used to it and at 35mm equivalent, it is the 'just perfect' focal length for a lot of things. If one need to do wide, then get acquainted with the motion panoramic feature. Yes it is hit and miss sometimes but when you get it, the pictures are awesome.

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