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dascher1200

x20 jpegs, the saga continues...

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dascher1200

Hello all,

I'm Loving this camera and everything about it except...

photo DSCF4584_zpse3a33fd1.jpg

I know is't not terrible and I don't have the latest camera RAW for post but the noise in lower ISO jpegs isn't acceptable. Notice that it is easily seen in the 200 ISO shot above and obvious in the 400 ISO shot below.

photo DSCF4583_zpsc5992ecb.jpg

I don't like to use in camera NR if I don't have to nor do I punch up any of the boost settings for shadows, highlights etc. I'm new to fuji(Nikon shooter) and was wondering if RAW will be mind-blowing in comparison or if this is what you get in post as well. In addition if there is something I'm not doing or should be pushing all the feature settings to attain abetter image I'd love some advice.

-Josh

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mattmaber

Others will probably be better able to reply, but they both look OK to me.

Im seeing some jpeg compression around high contrast areas in the second one (green stem top middle & left of the leftish most flower infront of the window)

Id say dont be afraid of the Fuji JPEGs, allow it to do some NR as theyre awesome.

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flysurfer

These look like DR200% and DR400% shots to me. At least I think the camera would choose these settings for such a subject if you set it to DR Auto and allow ISO to go to 200 or 400.

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andyfromboston

I don't get it. Where's the noise? I see some JPG artifacts from these files being so small, but to me these aren't noisy at all.

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dascher1200

I'm 99.9999% sure that these are the basic "fineL" jpegs, no noise reduction, DR adjustments or shadow/highlight boost. Again I'm used to shooting NEF raw and my trust in jpeg or knowledge of jpeg compression and artifacts is marginal at best.

In the white petals of the blooms I'm fighting to see texture vs. the watercolor-like modeling. That said, should I be pushing the cameras features to make those areas more accurate? My first inclination was to leave everything set to default.

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mattmaber

I see plenty of texture in the petals and some JPEG artifacts.

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mattmaber

slight noise in the curtain, petal looks OK to me. Sparkles.

Edge of the petal looks a bit smudged, but not noisy.

what aperture? Im guessing a wide one, try stopping it down a bit, this is an X20 after all with a small sensor, there are limits.

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Colin_Nicholls

Looks OK to me really, do you have an x10 to compare with? as said looks like pixel peeping to me, but if your not happy may I suggest to upgrading to an XE1?

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mattmaber

Youd be hard pressed to see any noise on a print I'm sure.

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dascher1200

Here's my angle. yes admittingly I do pixpeep, but I'm tech obsessed and an art director by day. can't help it.

I wanted something smaller than my Nikon for travel and street shooting and grew interested in the X-line. I checked out the x10 and right away pre-ordered the x20 hoping for a much improved image quality. I wasn't expecting it to mach the iq of a d600 with a 50mm f1.4 but i was expecting it to match the iq of lets say a consumer level model with VR kit lens. I am honestly tossing around the idea of a 1e or 100s. I'm going to see what the provided software does since I can't process raw in Aperture at the moment or for a while for that matter.

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bashar

Sir you have answered your own question promptly, you NEED an X100s, you do NEED it Indeed, to cure your pixal starvation! There is no way to get around the laws of physics with that sensor size!

or maybe I need an x100s?

8-|

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bashar

the XE-1 is NOT the same as the X-100, X-100 is more compact, maybe not much, but you will use it more, plus you have a D600 there!

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dascher1200

bashar

I'm ready to lump up the additional 600 bucks either way. Does the xe-1 fall short in other ways or is it just the overall handling that's different?

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K1W1

I wasn't expecting it to mach the iq of a d600 with a 50mm f1.4 but i was expecting it to match the iq of lets say a consumer level model with VR kit lens.

Won't happen.

The sensor in the X10/20 is a fraction of the physical size of the sensor in an APS-C DSLR and no matter what magic the people at Fuji work it can't and never will match the quality of an APS-C sensor in every respect just like APS-C cannot match Full Frame.

If I pixel peep my X10 images I am always disappointed but I have learnt not to pixel peep and accept that camera for what it is, a great small light easy to carry package that goes everywhere with me and captures images that are more than acceptable in most cases for web or similar viewing.

I think you just need to re evaluate what you want the camera to do and either accept it's limitations or as you say look at something else.

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andyfromboston

Is it just me or does this image actually have almost no noise? I see a bit of posterization that's probably a conversion artifact. Try shooting raw+jpg and doing the conversion in... what do you have? Just the Fuji version of Silkypix or can you use the latest RC versions of Lightroom or Adobe Camera Raw?

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flysurfer

If this kind of IQ and noise is "upsetting" the OP, I'm not really sure that a X-E1 or X100S would satisfy his pixel peeing needs. Maybe/probably a Sony RX1 or Leica M 240 (at lower ISO and with the right lens) could. Those aren't cheap, though, but at least the Sony is very compact.

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dascher1200

Is it just me or does this image actually have almost no noise? I see a bit of posterization that's probably a conversion artifact. Try shooting raw+jpg and doing the conversion in... what do you have? Just the Fuji version of Silkypix or can you use the latest RC versions of Lightroom or Adobe Camera Raw?

If this kind of IQ and noise is "upsetting" the OP, I'm not really sure that a X-E1 or X100S would satisfy his pixel peeing needs. Maybe/probably a Sony RX1 or Leica M 240 (at lower ISO and with the right lens) could. Those aren't cheap, though, but at least the Sony is very compact.

Not trying to ruffle feathers here. Just really want to make the right choice on my kit. I checked out Rico's notes on fuji rumors and it gave some insight. I'm definitely looking for pro control on a casual level...ie street camera with high quality results. I shoot full frame but want a sidekick rig that can still impress and I think the x20 is just shy of that standard. That's all.

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andyfromboston

I don't think feathers are being ruffled. That implies personal offense, but all we're doing is observing that these images are not noisy. But anyway, I think that if you think that's noisy, no small sensor camera is going to do it for you. My other camera is a D800 and your images here look good to me. Not D800 good, but still good.

Since you seem to be an advanced user, I think you should try these in raw. The artifacts I think you're interpreting as noise can be made to go away.

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dascher1200

I don't think feathers are being ruffled. That implies personal offense, but all we're doing is observing that these images are not noisy. But anyway, I think that if you think that's noisy, no small sensor camera is going to do it for you. My other camera is a D800 and your images here look good to me. Not D800 good, but still good.

Since you seem to be an advanced user, I think you should try these in raw. The artifacts I think you're interpreting as noise can be made to go away.

If this kind of IQ and noise is "upsetting" the OP, I'm not really sure that a X-E1 or X100S would satisfy his pixel peeing needs. Maybe/probably a Sony RX1 or Leica M 240 (at lower ISO and with the right lens) could. Those aren't cheap, though, but at least the Sony is very compact.

Not offended at all and funny enough I took interest in the x series after looking to the rx100 as a benchmark.

I appreciate both comments. I started fiddling with silkypix and as an avid Aperture user I was turned off right away by its clunkyness, the images were actually further from a baseline than jpeg. That said I'm not into workarounds with DNC and the like nor do I want to adopt LR workflow.

I have to admit I think buyers remorse has set in and need to look into the x-100/100s model to satisfy the needs for a serious everyday carry camera. The fast zoom glass and specs on the x20 had me preordering but after a week with it I'm needing to rethink.

As an aside I've been looking at what the x100 can do and I'm almost sold.

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andyfromboston

I think you're suffering from the "analysis paralysis." Only thing for it is to wait out the end of the cold weather then get out and shoot and stop paying attention to web sites. All these reviews are enough to make one think life isn't truly lived without an X100S, but really, these things are all just gear.

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