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bgeorge77

So, no more OVF?

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bgeorge77

So, do you folks think that the lack of an OVF in the X-T1 indicates that there will be no more OVF cameras in the X series? Or that perhaps OVFs will be restricted to the X100 line? Sorry if this topic has been covered.

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Owtafocus

I can't tell the future by any means, but since I never use the OVF it won't bother me.

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Albert

I don't think it means anything one way or the other.

I've doubted for some time whether there will ever be an X-Pro2, but as I'm not an OVF fan I'm also in the unconcerned camp.

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Guest

From an engineering standpoint, it's reasonably practical to maintain an OVF for the X100 line, because it will presumably always have a fixed prime lens.

The OVF in the X-Pro1 is quite impressive and versatile, but it has its limitations. It's big and bulky, the optical lens elements for the viewfinder can only be made so small before they cease to function properly. It's sufficient for a lot of people though, so hopefully Fujifilm continues it in the Pro line as well. Maybe they'll find a better solution some day? Imagine an OVF that could change its focal length with adjustable 'liquid lenses'.

The X-T1 was never destined to have an optical viewfinder. It's simply not possible for the X Series to have a through-the-lens optical viewfinder, there's no room to fit a mirror given the set distance between the lens mount and image sensor. Any X Series OVF will always be offset from the lens in some manner, which is what makes the 'Rangerfinder' style body so suitable for hybrid viewfinders.

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gryphon1911

I agree. The X100/X100s series benefits greatly from an OVF, where it would seem that trying to predict the future of lenses and focal lengths would bring about too many compromises in OVF design.

The biggest thing that could be improved in the OVF would be to have automatic parallax correction based on the focus distance, like the old Yashica Lynx cameras used to have.

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artuk

From an engineering standpoint, it's reasonably practical to maintain an OVF for the X100 line, because it will presumably always have a fixed prime lens.

The OVF in the X-Pro1 is quite impressive and versatile, but it has its limitations. It's big and bulky, the optical lens elements for the viewfinder can only be made so small before they cease to function properly. It's sufficient for a lot of people though, so hopefully Fujifilm continues it in the Pro line as well. Maybe they'll find a better solution some day? Imagine an OVF that could change its focal length with adjustable 'liquid lenses'.

Who says the X100 line will always have a fixed lens? Historical precedent suggests that an enthusiast compact with a good zoom lens could sell - no-one makes an APS-C pocket camera with a zoom lens, but cameras like the NEX line show it could be small.

As for the X Pro 1 OVF - I must be missing the "impressive" qualities - maybe the barrel distortion, the wildly inaccurate frame lines and AF marker, or the limitation of only really working effectively with lenses in the 18-35mm focal length range?

Contax solved the problem of a zooming OVF years ago with the G2, but curiously Fuji keeps failing to learn from its own and others learnings. It makes sense on a fixed focal length camera, but it makes so little sense on an interchangeable lens system. SLRs solve that problem so much better for 99% of users (1% of street enthusiasts excluded)

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K1W1_Mk2

Who says the X100 line will always have a fixed lens? Historical precedent suggests that an enthusiast compact with a good zoom lens could sell

Isn't that the X10/20?

An APS-C zoom X100 style camera is not going to be substantially smaller and more importantly not cheaper than the low end DSLRs with their kit zooms and those products will outsell it every time. Fuji would be on another road to nowhere if they spent time and money on that project.

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shotage

The only thing that really bothers me about the X-Pro OVF is the AF point. If they can improve that then I think it's worth having. I use it and like it and I hope it stays for the X-Pro2, but only of they can improve on it.

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mattmaber

I can't see the X100 line getting a zoom and tbh hope not. That's for the x20 series as K1w1 points out.

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artuk

Who says the X100 line will always have a fixed lens? Historical precedent suggests that an enthusiast compact with a good zoom lens could sell

Isn't that the X10/20?

An APS-C zoom X100 style camera is not going to be substantially smaller and more importantly not cheaper than the low end DSLRs with their kit zooms and those products will outsell it every time. Fuji would be on another road to nowhere if they spent time and money on that project.

No, because they have a small sensor, like most other zoom compacts to date.

Everyone said a large sensor pocket camera would not or could not happen, and then we get models from Nikon and Ricoh. The Sony RX100 has a much larger sensor than anything Fuji make in a very small body. Never say never.

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allineedsislight

I use the OVF all the time - so I hope it will not go away in future fixed lense models. In fact, I think the OVF is *the* distinctive feature of the X100/s. What makes it useful is not only that it shows you a clear image but also lets you see outside of the image frame! With the EVF you cannot see outside the frame.

The biggest thing that could be improved in the OVF would be to have automatic parallax correction based on the focus distance, like the old Yashica Lynx cameras used to have.

well, the X100/s already have parallax correction: the white rectangle indicating the image frame moves with focus distance.

Unfortunately, the correct position is only shown on half-pressing the shutter release button. At least in MF mode it would be better to always show the parallax corrected frame, even w/o pressing the shutter release button.

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gryphon1911

I use the OVF all the time - so I hope it will not go away in future fixed lense models. In fact, I think the OVF is *the* distinctive feature of the X100/s. What makes it useful is not only that it shows you a clear image but also lets you see outside of the image frame! With the EVF you cannot see outside the frame.

The biggest thing that could be improved in the OVF would be to have automatic parallax correction based on the focus distance, like the old Yashica Lynx cameras used to have.

well, the X100/s already have parallax correction: the white rectangle indicating the image frame moves with focus distance.

Unfortunately, the correct position is only shown on half-pressing the shutter release button. At least in MF mode it would be better to always show the parallax corrected frame, even w/o pressing the shutter release button.

Yes, I was thinking more a real time correction as the focus happens, a la the Yashica.

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Crikey

... I think the OVF is *the* distinctive feature of the X100/s. What makes it useful is not only that it shows you a clear image but also lets you see outside of the image frame! With the EVF you cannot see outside the frame.

Well, given the range of EVF options in the XT1, reckon we could look forward to having an (accurate) image frame together with some surrounding context as an option in future EVFs. Sure, there's the issue of physically fitting a big enough VF into a humpless RF format, but combined OVF/EVFs have similar physical design issues.

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Guest

Yes, I was thinking more a real time correction as the focus happens, a la the Yashica.

That would be a nice advancement!

As Fujifilm's AF performance improves with each model, I imagine it will get easier to 'trust' the arguably more vague AF point indicator offered in their OVF's. I really enjoyed using the OVF on my X100 when I first received it, but after some time and practice I just stopped trusting it and decided to always use the EVF. Admittedly the X100 has improved a great deal since it was first released in 2011, through many firmware improvements. I should give the OVF another chance.

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artuk

... I think the OVF is *the* distinctive feature of the X100/s. What makes it useful is not only that it shows you a clear image but also lets you see outside of the image frame! With the EVF you cannot see outside the frame.

Well, given the range of EVF options in the XT1, reckon we could look forward to having an (accurate) image frame together with some surrounding context as an option in future EVFs. Sure, there's the issue of physically fitting a big enough VF into a humpless RF format, but combined OVF/EVFs have similar physical design issues.

How could an EVF show an image OUTSIDE the view of the sensor???

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artuk

Yes, I was thinking more a real time correction as the focus happens, a la the Yashica.

That would be a nice advancement!

As Fujifilm's AF performance improves with each model, I imagine it will get easier to 'trust' the arguably more vague AF point indicator offered in their OVF's. I really enjoyed using the OVF on my X100 when I first received it, but after some time and practice I just stopped trusting it and decided to always use the EVF. Admittedly the X100 has improved a great deal since it was first released in 2011, through many firmware improvements. I should give the OVF another chance.

+1

the tendency for the focus distance scale to show wildly different distances if you focus on the same thing a few times doesn't help the sense of trust (it appears to show totally different distances even when the camera appears to have focused on the same thing!). The X Pro has exactly the same issues, plus the greater issue of needing to work with different focal lengths. Contax made a zooming high quality OVF that worked with their zoom lens on the G2 system, and simply adjusted to an optimised magnification with the primes. I find the OVF can only really be trusted when focusing on massive things that dominate the frame, or pictures which are mostly 2 dimensional (flat subjects), where the accuracy of the point of focus is not much of an issue. The same applies if you are taking pictures well stopped down. Shooting at large apertures or where the point of focus is critical (e.g. a portrait with the focus on the eye) just doesn't seem very reliable in my experience (I am specifically talking about the X Pro 1 here, for example used with the 60mm lens). Problems also exist if you want a specific and accurate composition (e.g. a symmetrical picture) where it ends up needing repetitive trial and error to get the left hand side of the picture framed accurately.

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artuk

Who says the X100 line will always have a fixed lens? Historical precedent suggests that an enthusiast compact with a good zoom lens could sell

Isn't that the X10/20?

An APS-C zoom X100 style camera is not going to be substantially smaller and more importantly not cheaper than the low end DSLRs with their kit zooms and those products will outsell it every time. Fuji would be on another road to nowhere if they spent time and money on that project.

Perhaps the new Canon G1X Mk II with f2.0-3.9 24-120mm zoom lens answers this question quite well. It's not a "retro", but it's a big sensor "pocket" camera with a fast zoom lens. EVF optional, however.

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Crikey

How could an EVF show an image OUTSIDE the view of the sensor???

Oops! Looks like I'll have to stay with using my left eye -- one of the benefits of RF format ...

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