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old_school

The X40?

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old_school

Just picked up a used X10. Love it!

I like an OVF don't need a ton of info, etched lines for parallax would be enough. 24mm on the wide end would be great, don't really care for more on the long end. My eyes could use a little more +diopter adjustment though in a few years.

I'm kind of a plow-horse vs show-horse fellow. I suppose I'd like to see the replacement to this adhere to Occam's Razor. Kind of a ratrod of cameras. Lots of horsepower not really interested in bling.

Forgive me if I'm an idiot, but this digital world is new to me...

For those that know better than I, what should the next one at this price point look like?

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boulevardier

The little X's have become rather niche, in so far as they hang on to what many would consider to be too small a sensor for their overall size. If you are looking for the best low light capability or want to enlarge prints to big sizes, there are better cameras on the market, but few that represent such a sweet spot between portability, flexibility and quality.

My X10 has developed a fungus spot on one of the internal elements, but as it doesn't show on the image, I'll keep it until it dies. It's difficult to know how an X40 could improve the format without going to a bigger sensor. They have become a modern day half frame film camera - most people don't see the point but those who love them swear by them. The x10 is still my favourite Fuji, and I own the X-M1 and X-Pro1

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boulevardier

It's interesting to compare the size of the X30 with a X-A2. It's really only the lens fitted to the X-A2 that is going to make the difference.

Comparison link here

The X10/20 are even closer in size to the X-A2

Comparison link here

The X-M1 body is roughly the same size as the X10 body, but the zoom on the former is massively bigger than the X10, and is of a shorter focal range and smaller maximum aperture. The X10 series does a very good job of fitting a lot of usability into a compact package, including an optical viewfinder, 28-112mm lens and a flash.

Some fixed lens APS-C compacts are beginning to compete on size, but MILCs with zooms are much bigger.

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MadDog

Yes the venerable X-10. I bought one when it first hit the market and did two weddings solo with that camera and some lights/diffusers. Awesome little camera - very very capable in the hands of those with experience in light/shadow. You will enjoy using it for years to come.

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artuk

It's interesting to compare the size of the X30 with a X-A2. It's really only the lens fitted to the X-A2 that is going to make the difference.

Comparison link here

The X10/20 are even closer in size to the X-A2

Comparison link here

The X-M1 body is roughly the same size as the X10 body, but the zoom on the former is massively bigger than the X10, and is of a shorter focal range and smaller maximum aperture. The X10 series does a very good job of fitting a lot of usability into a compact package, including an optical viewfinder, 28-112mm lens and a flash.

Some fixed lens APS-C compacts are beginning to compete on size, but MILCs with zooms are much bigger.

The Panasonic LX100 offers a much bigger sensor in a similar sized camera, and most of the 1" sensor competition (e.g. RX100) offer better image quality, similar lens range, but are more expensive (though there are some great deals on Canon's rather uninspiring G7X). I don't really understand the X30 because the increase in size seems out of proportion with the rather small sensor, though it is competitively priced.

Sony's A5100 is the smallest APS-C sensor camera, and with the "pancake" 16-50mm zoom is little bigger than many larger compacts. The same could be said for much of the Nikon 1 range, which make an excellent alternative to a small sensor compact if you wan do without a viewfinder.

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old_school

artuk:

A flat out 'deal breaker' for me is no finder.

Coming from my favorite camera a Rollei 35SE I find an LCD pretty much useless other than for basic setting info and playback chores. The limitations of an LCD preclude it from being the soul source of composition. In fact after owning it a week the LCD is set on 'info' for most settings and -5 for my indoor setting as the OVF is always at the ready and doesn't tax the battery.

Sure it's only 85% FOV but it's taken into account when composing then, eh?.

One last point is why shoot in the most unstable position possible with the LCD if the camera has a finder? Do we now depend on stabilization to make up for our negligence of good practice?

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artuk

artuk:

Sure it's only 85% FOV but it's taken into account when composing then, eh?.

One last point is why shoot in the most unstable position possible with the LCD if the camera has a finder? Do we now depend on stabilization to make up for our negligence of good practice?

Personally I don't see the point of viewfinders like those on the X10 because they are so inaccurate and don't show any information, so we obviously have different needs.

As for technique, I use whatever is most appropriate - probably about 85-80% of composition with a viewfinder and the rest with the LCD where it wouldn't be possible to compose with the viewfinder. And yes, I have been using stabilised camera systems for about 8-10 years all the way back to Minolta's first DSLR with in body sensor based stabilisation. I don't see it as anything to do with bad technique, it simply allows hand holding the camera at reasonable shutter speeds and getting consistently reliable results (1/focal length is always a minimum in many cases for hand holding without any form of stabilisation). One of the weaknesses of the X system is the lack of stabilisation in either the bodies or the prime lenses, therefore forcing the need for much higher ISO which for me in some cases would make the resultant image unusable due to excessive image noise. I have tried using a light weight tripod, but when walking all day in high temperatures and humidity it was a drag, and.failed to offer many of the compositional opportunities available when hand holding. A larger more sophisticated tripod would solve that but would be incompatible with long haul air travel and 95% humidity and temperatures often over 100F.

edit: At the time the X10 was "current" I chose a Nikon V1, which was cheaper and had a much bigger 1" sensor and an excellent EVF and very fast focusing.

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K1W1_Mk2

Personally I don't see the point of viewfinders like those on the X10 because they are so inaccurate and don't show any information, so we obviously have different needs.

Agree with that 100%.

I purchased the X10 primarily on the basis that it has an optical viewfinder but it became apparent very quickly that it was more a marketing exercise than a practical and useful addition to the camera. I love the camera but I can't remember the last time I looked through the optical viewfinder on it.

The X100 series on the other hand is a completely different situation and the OVF is great to use and actually useful. I suspect that the X-Pro1 may fall into the same category to some degree.

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gryphon1911

It's interesting to compare the size of the X30 with a X-A2. It's really only the lens fitted to the X-A2 that is going to make the difference.

Comparison link here

The X10/20 are even closer in size to the X-A2

Comparison link here

The X-M1 body is roughly the same size as the X10 body, but the zoom on the former is massively bigger than the X10, and is of a shorter focal range and smaller maximum aperture. The X10 series does a very good job of fitting a lot of usability into a compact package, including an optical viewfinder, 28-112mm lens and a flash.

Some fixed lens APS-C compacts are beginning to compete on size, but MILCs with zooms are much bigger.

The Panasonic LX100 offers a much bigger sensor in a similar sized camera, and most of the 1" sensor competition (e.g. RX100) offer better image quality, similar lens range, but are more expensive (though there are some great deals on Canon's rather uninspiring G7X). I don't really understand the X30 because the increase in size seems out of proportion with the rather small sensor, though it is competitively priced.

Sony's A5100 is the smallest APS-C sensor camera, and with the "pancake" 16-50mm zoom is little bigger than many larger compacts. The same could be said for much of the Nikon 1 range, which make an excellent alternative to a small sensor compact if you wan do without a viewfinder.

The Panasonic LX100 and Olympus Stylus 1 are decent enough cameras, but the deal breaker for a a lot if people is the powered zooms. I personally hate them. They are too slow and step to each focal length. I'd rather have a mechanical zoom like that which is found on the X10/20/30 series.

Why the m43 community decided that a powered zoom was a good idea...I'll never know.

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exakta

Personally I don't see the point of viewfinders like those on the X10 because they are so inaccurate and don't show any information, so we obviously have different needs.

Well you need some sort of VF...I don't get how anyone can use an LCD only camera in the sun. Maybe they never shoot anything outdoors?

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boulevardier

Yes, a bad optical viewfinder is more useful than a great LCD. So far as size goes, full frame mirrorless cameras are close to the size of APS-C varieties, so I imagine a truly pocketable full frame compact can only be a matter of time, especially if it has a fixed lens of modest maximum aperture like the Sony RX1. Whether a FF zoom lens can cover traditional focal lengths without sticking out like a horse's whatsname, is another matter.

All this misses the point of the X10 series, which is a cute, well-made, versatile photographic tool for people who don't care about huge magnifications or low light performance.

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artuk

Personally I don't see the point of viewfinders like those on the X10 because they are so inaccurate and don't show any information, so we obviously have different needs.

Well you need some sort of VF...I don't get how anyone can use an LCD only camera in the sun. Maybe they never shoot anything outdoors?

I didn't say you don't need a viewfinder ;-)

Just that I don't see the point of the one in the X10. For example, you have no idea what the camera has focused on...

That's why I purchased a Nikon V1 instead!

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Petri

I love my X10. As someone else said, it's a great all round package, with a fantastic lens and a sensor that punches well above its weight.

I can understand the criticism of the viewfinder but at the same time, I like it the way it is. I'm old enough to remember many film cameras with equally inaccurate and incomplete finders (with no screen as a backup) and it's easy enough to adjust for these things once you get used to the way it behaves. I quite enjoy the fact that there's no clutter in the finder, no winking lights or moving framelines, nothing between you and the picture you're trying to take - let's face it, with a small camera like the X10 it's difficult to adjust much without taking it away from your eye anyway, so what's the point - just put it into auto and let it do its stuff, or set the focus frame somewhere sensible (like dead centre) and use it that way.

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gryphon1911

Personally I don't see the point of viewfinders like those on the X10 because they are so inaccurate and don't show any information, so we obviously have different needs.

Well you need some sort of VF...I don't get how anyone can use an LCD only camera in the sun. Maybe they never shoot anything outdoors?

Maybe they could use one of those Hoodman Loupe devices. :D

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