Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jeremyclarke

X-T1 Experience (rented for wedding) in light of X-T10

Recommended Posts

jeremyclarke

So I'll start with a spoiler alert: I've already pre-ordered an X-T10 and am psyched to get my hands on it, so I may be biased. That said, I had a really interesting time finally using an X-T1 for a project and I wanted to share my thoughts on what was good and bad about it, and what I'll miss/won't miss about it when my X-T10 arrives.

Context: My first serious wedding, done as a gift for a friend. 60 people, in the country so lots of nature for portraits and a small, bright naturally-lit indoor venue for ceremony. I own an X-E1, kit lens and 35mm f/1.4, but I wanted a second body and a little more reach so I rented the X-T1 and 56mm f/1.2 (~100$ Canadian at Lozeau in Montreal).

SILENT SHUTTER

I wanted a second body for sure, but really the reason for my rental was the silent electronic shutter on the X-T1. During the ceremony it was a godsend, letting me snap away constantly without distracting the audience with noise. This worked exactly as I hoped. I was using the 56mm with the X-T1 and when I switched to my X-E1+18-55mm the difference was deafening. CLACK, CLACK, CLACK, people were turning their heads to look at me as soon as I took a shot. Switched back to X-T1 and everyone stayed focused on what was important: My friends getting married!

To me this is a no brainer, and I will never buy a non-silent camera again. This feature of course applies to both the X-T1 and X-T10 so it's not a big choosing point, but it's absolutely a knock against the X-E2/X-PRO1 if anyone is still considering them as options.

It also came in handy during outdoor portraits with the 56mm, where I left the camera on MS+ES so that it would only be used when necessary (to avoid the theoretical potential for rolling shutter). For most of the shots ES wasn't necessary, but when there was too much light the automatic mode worked flawlessly. No overexposed shots from not noticing the problem (common on X-E1) and no getting distracted trying to figure out what's going on when I bumped up against the 1/4000 limit.

The new firmware for both X-T1 and X-T10 will make MS+ES auto mode even more useful because MS+ES won't block you from using flash when there's an appropriate shutter speed, so I'll be able to leave it on essentially all the time and use the shutter dial to select 180x when I'm using flash (which I already had to do with MS-only on X-E1 since my flash is manual).

The worst risk with ES is of course rolling shutter, which I've read happens any time the movement would normally blur at 1/15s. This is a real problem and it's important that everyone is careful to avoid using ES on anything with significant movement. At the same time though it is rarely noticeable in practice even when it is surely present to some degree. None of the photos I took at the wedding were ruined by rolling shutter, and for the ones that would have been MS+ES would have chosen MS anyway (i.e. It's usually only risky in ES-only mode)/

It does take some getting used to in terms of knowing when to use MS/ES/MS+ES, and most importantly when to turn it off, but my experience was that it was manageable and I didn't end up with any important shots missed as a result. I had shutter type on a function button which worked fairly well, though the Q menu might work just as efficiently.

Fuji: Please change the effect of the "shutter type" function button! Right now it works like an ISO or white balance menu would: Click, up/down to choose, click to select. This is absolutely overkill for a menu with only three items. It should instead work like "View Mode": Click->select next item, Click->Select next item. That would mean I only need to push 1 button once or twice, rather than needing at least two buttons and needing at least 3 pushes.

FACE DETECTION

Flawed but extremely useful. Definitely have been missing this on the X-E1. I kept this on almost constantly and it rarely caused problems. For any kind of shot with no faces (details, landscapes, etc) it works normally as single-point AF, but when there's a distinct person it just locks on and nails focus on their eye even at f/1.2.

Worst case scenario I needed to move the AF point over their face, which I was going to have to do anyway, but in many situations by the time I did so the face box appeared and the final AF was the face detection so the feature still worked and ensured I got precise focus even better than the AF box would have given. Learning how to use this "robot vision" and give it time to work is something I'll have to practice, but damn it's helpful.

While face detection alone wouldn't have justified the rental, it was a priceless feature to integrate. I'm really excited Fuji is continuing to innovate on this feature and take it seriously with the new firmware. Proper eye-detection is going to be one of the most important features for users of ultra-fast primes like Fuji specializes in.

Note on Face Detection function button: I had Face Detection set to the front function button to be able to quickly turn it off when there were faces in the frame I didn't want to focus on. The criticism of the shutter button applies in the exact same way to Face Detection, which should just switch the feature on/off rather than pulling up an awful up/down menu with only two options. If they made it work like View Mode it would only require 1 click on 1 button in all situations, rather than 3 clicks on at least 2 buttons.

Fuji: What we need now is for Face Detection to seamlessly integrate with all the other modes in a way that doesn't force you to turn it on/off all the time, but instead gives you a way to "cancel" face detect for any given shot if you don't want to.

E.g. Framing a shot of something in someone's hand, but face detect focuses on their face in the background. Hit a button (focus assist?) and the box dissappears, returning to the single AF point that would show if there was no face (currently you'd have to disable face detection completely and re-enable it after).

Fuji: Another thing that's direly needed is a way to switch the "dominant" face in the shot (MUCH more than we need to pick left/right eye WTF). Currently it picks one face (based on centrality according to the manual) and you are stuck with either focusing on that face or turning off Face Detection completely. This is a huge bummer, because the camera already knows there are many faces (non-dominant ones are shown in a white box) but has no way to let you choose which to focus on. Some mechanic to cycle between the various faces would be extremely useful (I keep thinking of how the tab key works in Word of Warcraft to cycle between enemies). Obviously a touch screen would be ideal, but even without it there must be a button that could cycle between faces (trash?)

Fuji: Finally in group portraits I was dying for a way to know whether the non-dominant faces were also in focus or not. My goal when using shallow DoF is to get the eyes all lined up, line myself up with that plane, then focus so everyone is sharp. As-is all the non-dominant faces are white no matter what, so there's no way of knowing whether I'm aligned with the group. It would be great if there were three colors: Green for dominant, white for non-dominant-also-mostly-focused and red for non-dominant-out-of-focus. This would let me rotate myself until there was no red before firing and not end up surprised by one blurry face when I get home.

PHOTOMETRY DIAL

Now we're getting into differences between X-T1 and X-T10, because the spot/auto/full metering dial is among the features "missing" on the X-T10. In summary this dial is useless. I didn't really need to change the metering mode over the course of the weekend and when I did (heavy backlighting) it didn't solve my problem and Exp. Comp. was faster and more effective.

The dial itself is cool to look at, but surprisingly hard to manipulate in the intended way. The tiny nub at the front got "stuck" in the left position (spot metering) and I had to fuss with it to get it back to auto, making me not want to use it too often.

Of course it DID move a lot when bringing my camera in and out of my bag, which was obnoxious and resulted in me being confused about how dark my shots were coming out at one point.

Final verdict: Anyone who loves this dial please say so, otherwise Fuji should find another setting to create a hardware switch for. Personally I'd have WAY more use for an AF type (single/zone), Face Detection or Shutter type switch than this photometry one. As-is, this dial is a reason NOT to get an X-T1 since it's a useless liability (to me at least).

ISO DIAL

Like most others I was fascinated by the ISO dial when the X-T1 came out. It felt like the final frontier of manual control, and I was worried I'd miss it if I bought a camera without it (i.e the X-PRO2 who's format seems like it wouldn't have space). Having used it my heart has grown cold. I don't think it's necessary and was fine with Auto-ISO over the course of the weekend.

The real problem is that Fuji's Auto-ISO implementation is so good that the dial isn't necessary. There's no "creative" reason to select a particular ISO (unlike shutter speed and aperture) so there's no real reason to choose a specific value as the dial implies you should.

I set the minimums/maximums for the auto system and just pay attention to whether the camera is able to use them or not. For me a switch that just said "base ISO" and "auto ISO" would work just as well and take up a lot less space/visual clutter than the current dial on the X-T1. Alternately a nub-style dial with just "auto1" "auto2" and "auto3" would completely solve my ISO needs.

Maybe others will dissagree, but I bet a lot of people who lusted for the ISO dial now basically ignore it. I for one won't waste any tears crying over it's absence on the X-T10.

Fuji: All we need to be completely rid of ISO dials is a couple more tweaks to the auto ISO settings. Specifically the ability to indicate a target aperture the same way we designate a desired shutter speed. I often want "Max ISO 6400, Minimum 1/100s, Wide open aperture", but when there's enough light for ISO 200 I am left with the camera raising the aperture to f/4 without raising the shutter speed to 1/4000 first. I know I can use the manual aperture for this, but it would be good if there was an option to integrate that decision into the full automatic logic.

DRIVE DIAL

Unlike the ISO dial on the X-T1 the drive dial was extremely useful. On my X-E1 changing drive modes is a shockingly byzantine experience, especially the way CH and CL are so hard to get to. Having the little nub dial was a huge improvement, both because it was easy to change and because it was easy to look at the camera and see what setting was active.

For this feature the X-T1 and X-T10 are roughly equivalent since both have a drive dial, but if anything I'd give the advantage to the X-T10. To me the drive dial is more valuable than the ISO dial and I'd rather have it as a full milled metal wheel rather than the nub system. On the X-T10 the drive mode is visible when looking down (along with aperture, shutter and Exp. Comp.) and I can turn it precisely with two fingers rather than shifting the nub with just one finger. That last part is a mixed bag since changing it with one finger is also a valuable option, but I don't need to turn the dial that often (compared to say exp. comp.) so the big wheel will work fine. The big wheel also lets it hold more options (9 rather than 7) without being any more finicky which is a bonus.

Overall the X-T10 has 2 fewer dials than the X-T1, but as it stands I won't miss either of them. The nub dials for photometry and drive mode end up being overkill for my purposes, and though it might not scream "professional" compared to the complexity of the X-T1, the simplicity of the top plate of the X-T10 is more beautiful IMHO, and at the end of the day removing useless dials means reducing the number of issues I have from dials moving when I take the camera in and out of bags (of which the aperture dial on lenses will always give me enough surprises to keep life interesting).

BUTTONS/COMMAND DIALS

Another major difference between the X-T1 and X-T10 is how the command dials and buttons work in relation to each other, which is explained by Fuji as resulting from the X-T1's weather sealing. I'll start by saying that obviously if you NEED the weather sealing then this is a non-issue: You need the X-T1 and it doesn't matter how "mushy" or hard to use the buttons are. Fuji had to make concessions and you get a lot in return for the awkward buttons.

That said: I hate the buttons on the X-T1. I hate how recessed the directional pad buttons are, I could barely find the focus-assist/Q buttons without looking and the command dials were mushy and hard to spin if my hands were even a tiny bit sweaty. It makes sense that I felt like I was wearing rubber gloves (both keep out water) but it was not a good feeling at all.

Now of course, I haven't tried the X-T10 buttons yet, but from what I've read they feel and work just like on the X-E1, and I LOVE those buttons compared to what the X-T1 has. The command dials especially were disappointing on the X-T1, because they don't have the function buttons integrated into them which means you need to learn two extra "positions" for your fingers to take and you are that much more likely to have to use multiple positions to get something done. On the X-T10 you can click the dial, spin it to choose an option and click again to confirm, changing a setting with only one finger and without moving your hand. This is how it should be.

IMHO the extra buttons also make the camera a little uglier/noisier to look at because there are extra buttons visible. Sure more buttons is usually good and makes the camera look cool, but for me invisible tools are pretty much always more valuable than ones that take up extra space (and they could still have those extra buttons if they wanted, giving you even more shortcuts). I also found the front button in particular to be frustrating because I would press it when I didn't mean to, especially when I was looking at the LCD and changing settings. I would surely get used to it eventually, but I would never push the command dial by accident on the X-T10.

Hopefully this was a temporary setback and Fuji can figure out how to make clicky buttons and a weather sealed dial that has an integrated button for the X-T2. For now this is definitely a knock against the usability of the X-T1 that makes me glad I'm getting an X-T10 instead.

BONUS: SR AUTO SWITCH

I consider this one a "bonus" because I didn't actually get to try it, but since it's missing on the X-T1 and I'm excited about it as a feature of X-T10 I figured I'd mention it. The full auto switch seems like a really smart idea to me that will help both hardcore professionals and hardcore amateurs.

For amateurs the appeal is obvious: Use that lever and you don't have to learn about photography or your own camera, only disabling it when you have time to ponder the unknowable mysteries of the exposure square and focus points.

For pros the appeal is more nuanced, but I think very important and multi-faceted. For starters there's the obvious use case of handing off the camera to a noob. In that situation other Fuji's are ridiculously complicated to hand over, requiring potentially several dial/knob turns and a trip through the menus to set AF to something simple (anyone else tired of trying to get people to put the box over your face?). The new auto switch means you'll be able to hand off the camera after a single change AND you can immediately change it back to your manual settings after, rather than having to remember/re-create them once you get the camera back. I'm really excited about having full auto work like this, especially now that the face detection/zone focus modes are powerful enough that it will work "like a smartphone" and help noobs get the pictures they expect.

To me though there's a whole other appeal, which is that it gives you a way to have a second "save state" for all your settings, which is notably missing from Fuji cameras. Sure you can use the "Custom settings" system in the Q menu, but that thing is garbage, only letting you save the stupid JPEG related settings and ignoring everything important (af mode, shutter mode, face detect, timer). I find that Custom settings feature on my X-E1 messes me up by accident more than it helps me, and I'll probably remove it once I have a camera that lets me customize the Q menu.

On the other hand this new SR Auto switch won't let you have a CUSTOMIZEABLE set of saved settings, but because it changes all settings to their most automatic format it can completely change the behavior of the camera in an instant without losing the work you put into the current setup. I can imagine this being extremely useful when I'm doing very precise work with the camera but have an intermittent need for more general shooting.

E.g. While shooting macro I have everything on manual to make the flash work, I have a lot of settings configured in ways that make normal shooting impossible. If I suddenly see a deer with the X-T1 I might need to change a lot of config to get a shot of it, but with the SR Auto switch I could get a shot in seconds, then revert back to my elaborate macro configuration just as fast. Similar situations would come up any time you're using manual flash or when you're switching back and forth between two lenses (e.g. f/4->f/1.2) where one type of shooting can function on auto but the other requires special configuration.

Finally I'm excited about the SR Auto switch because if everything else about the camera is set to auto already (auto ISO, shutter, and aperture, how I usually use my X-E1) it will act as a super-fast switch for Face Detection/Zone AF, letting me use SR Auto to let the camera try to guess the AF point and disabling it to use the D-Pad instead. I'll have to wait and see how often this comes up, but I'm guessing there are a lot of situations where it will be useful (as long as the actual "scene recognition" doesn't get in the way and overdo it, though no one has complained about that yet).

FUJI: For bonus points make the auto switch configurable, and give us a few more options! Would love if you could choose it's effect from a list like this:

* Enable/disable SR auto

* Enable/disable Face Detection

* Enable/Disable Zone Focusing

* Enable/Disable MS+ES auto mode.

If it was that configurable I bet a lot of "pros" would be dying for a similar switch on the X-T1 ;)

CONCLUSION: I WANT MY X-T10 NOW PLEASE!

There you have it, tons of detail that adds up to "both cameras are great" and "X-T10 is an easy choice for me." If I needed weather sealing I would get the X-T1 of course, but I might just keep it as a second body for bad weather and sports. For almost all types of shooting I do the X-T10 would be just as capable and ergonomically more appropriate, in addition to being much much cheaper :)

P.S. I didn't talk about buffer rates, in which context X-T1 easily comes out ahead. If you need 8FPS for dozens of shots then you need the X-T1. Personally I never want to deal with all those RAW files, so CL is fast enough and from what I understand the X-T10 will do fine at that rate.

P.P.S. The other significant difference I didn't talk about is the picture-in-picture focus aid mode, which is awesome and only exists on the X-T1 because the X-T10 has a smaller viewfinder. I didn't use this very much but will indeed miss it on the X-T10 since it strikes me as the best manual focus solution. That said focus peaking will still work great and having a non-mushy focus-zoom button on the command dial is just as valuable to me :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeremyclarke

Aaaaand to go with all that text a single photo just for fun:

18255370383_c926603d3a_b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christopher

Great review Jeremy, thanks for sharing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
taminatorv

Thanks for the write up. I also have an X-E1 with the 18-55mm, 55-200mm, and the 35mm f1.4, along with Nikon and Tokina lenses I use on an adapter. A few things that makes me want to upgrade from the X-E1 are AF in low light, EVF lag in low light, and improvements for manual focusing. It sounds like the split screen, larger screen size, and the focus aids with the X-T1 will make using my legacy lenses far more enjoyable. From all the reviews I've read, that's pretty much the only reason to buy the X-T1 over the X-T10 for me. If I could change the focus peaking color from something besides white on the X-E1, I could probably be happy with the X-T10 for manual focusing. Maybe I'll wait until both are available at my local camera store for a side by side look.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeremyclarke

taminatorv: Good points. I agree split screen manual focus is probably the biggest reason other than weather sealing to get the X-T1. FWIW the focus peaking worked a LOT better on the X-T1 than my X-E1 (where it is often almost invisible in the viewfinder) and the ability to choose white, yellow or red will be present on both the X-T1 and X-T10, so you may find the improvements to focus peaking are enough without the split screen.

That said if I was planning to use the camera primarily for manual focusing I'd be much more likely to choose the X-T1, as the huge EVF (and the split screen mode that comes with it) will be very useful for avoiding errors. Holding both and trying to focus manually is definitely what I would do. I didn't need to test the manual focus on the X-T1 very much because the AF and face detection were working fine in the good light.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
photogirl

I love the spot metering on the XT1, as I do on the XS1; reason being I love taking flowers, especially when they are light from behind from the late day sun and during daytime when they are in the shadows with just a shaft of light hitting them, this is when the spot metering comes into its own.

DSCF1428.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
veejaycee

The scene you describe comes through very well in your image @photogirl. Wild (real) Geraniums?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
photogirl

The scene you describe comes through very well in your image @photogirl. Wild (real) Geraniums?

I have Googled wild geraniums @veejaycee and it definitely looks like this is what they are. Though they were growing in beautifully tended gardens; Hope Park in Keswick.

:-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
veejaycee

Did they try to bite your ankles as you walked past?

They are species Geraniums also known as Cranes bill (from the seedhead) and they grow in the wild - what most people call geraniums are more properly called Pelagoniums but are part of the same family hailing originally from the Med countries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
veejaycee

@jeremyclarke I congratulate on a well written piece which will no doubt be of interest to many although most wedding pros and experienced photographers don't appear to have similar complaints but I suppose there is always room for "improvement". However, it does also bear out what I said here http://www.fujixseries.com/discussion/8775/more-action-af-tests-with-the-x-t10-and-v.4.0-firmware#Item_31

Your dislike of the dials is strange - they are the reason many of us bought into the Fuji system and now you want to do away with them in favour of yet more buttons and automation. It seems to me you bought entirely the wrong camera and that something with more P&S features would suit you better. I don't mean that in a nasty or derogatory way but just think about it - are you not just asking for a camera to do everything for you except point in the right direction and shoot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gryphon1911

@jeremyclarke

Well thought out and articulated report. Glad it all worked out well for you and you now have a good, solid base of information to make future decisions. A lot of people could learn from what you've done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
artuk

Any reports on updates for the shutter lag / aperture dance issue?

A member here previously posted some very detailed analysis of his experiences when using manual focus, where depending on aperture and MF distance there was a variable delay of up to 0.6s seconds before the shutter actually fired.

Certainly, I found aperture dance on my X Pro used to cause shutter lag. Although some users deny the problem, I think it is because they do not understand the circumstances required to recreate it. Fuji have never officially reported anything in a firmware update that appeared to cover it, but then the English of the release notes if often so obtuse it can be hard to work out what has been fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeremyclarke

artuk: I didn't notice anything in particular about aperture dance but I definitely wasn't doing that kind of analysis. The X-T1 performed fast and wonderful the entire time compared to the X-E1 that I'm used to so if you're still using an X-PRO you can take for granted you'll get a consistency boost across many features if you upgrade to either X-T1 or X-T10.

Gryphon: Thanks. I wasn't sure if I should write it all down but now I'm thinking I should post it on my real blog :P

Your dislike of the dials is strange - they are the reason many of us bought into the Fuji system and now you want to do away with them in favour of yet more buttons and automation.

I think my answer is that I'm not against dials, I'm just not in favor of them unless they are really valuable. I still love the aperture, speed and exposure compensation dials which are beautiful and fun to use, but dials need to earn the space they take up and complexity they add. In the case of the photometry and ISO dials I'm just not sold that wheels were the best solution for all serious photographers, and I think for many of us not having them will not be a big problem (clearly lots of X-PRO users survived without them!)

I would love the photometry dial if it could be configured to do soemthing else that has 3 settings like the MS/ES/MS+ES shutter controls. Why couldn't Fuji do that? It would let the photographer choose which features they need at their fingertips and I could teach myself to translate the little pictures on the dial pretty easily. As-is the X-T1 has so many specific dials that some of them will be ignored by a lot of users. (this applies equally to the SR Auto switch which should be configurable to be more useful to pros).

Of course my argument that the extra dials are "just a liability" is absolutely subjective and 33% just sour grapes on my part because I was going to choose the X-T10 based on price and clickiness of buttons anyway ;)

It seems to me you bought entirely the wrong camera and that something with more P&S features would suit you better. I don't mean that in a nasty or derogatory way but just think about it - are you not just asking for a camera to do everything for you except point in the right direction and shoot?

Good question veejaycee, it got me thinking and thank you for making it explicit you're not judging me (lets all assume the best!). If you read back through the whole thing ('aint nobody got time fo' that) I think you'll see that I'm not asking for more buttons or more automation, but rather for more configurability of the buttons that are there, and more control over the automation.

My comments on face detection were all about ways I wanted to intervene in the automation using my knowledge as a photographer. The PROBLEM with automation is it's stupid and makes mistakes and old pros just skip it to avoid having to constantly start over when they need to override it. The SOLUTION to automation is to add intelligent intervention opportunities so that knowledgeable users can train the auto to do what they need.

This is why auto-ISO is so useful on Fuji, they added the max ISO and min Shutter feature, so you can get exactly what you want from it. This liberates us from the distracting tedium of changing ISO for each circumstance. If the camera can find the face I want to focus on and put the smallest focus point on it's eye then why should I deal with the tedium of moving focus points if I don't have to? Not worrying about the focus point lets me focus on what a computer can never do: Making people laugh and getting the perfect composition.

My understanding is that professional photographers, especially in documentary situations like a wedding, are almost always on "program" mode (or "professional" as everyone's favorite punching bag likes to call it) because it's usually right and it's always faster than fussing with manual. My goal is to understand the camera well enough that it does exactly what I need in automatic mode, responding as I would to different changes in circumstance. Sure I guess that means I want the camera to do everything but point at the subject (and move the subject to the right location, talk to the subject, line up elements, get the subject to smile etc.) but it doesn't mean I want a dumb camera. I want an extremely smart camera that takes instructions in advance ;)

I also want a camera that offers elegant controls when I do, inevitably, need to use it in semi-automatic (manual aperture/shutter) or full manual mode, which is why I chose Fuji in the first place (along with other lens selection and aesthetics reasons). For me what defines a P&S camera isn't that it can be used on automatic, but that it's unable to be controlled manually. A truly professional camera should work both ways and cover a thousand semi-automatic contingencies in between. I love that the Fuji cameras are so capable in this regard, and I'm hoping they continue to add nuance to the system for those of us that want beautiful, modern cameras.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
taminatorv

taminatorv: Good points. I agree split screen manual focus is probably the biggest reason other than weather sealing to get the X-T1. FWIW the focus peaking worked a LOT better on the X-T1 than my X-E1 (where it is often almost invisible in the viewfinder) and the ability to choose white, yellow or red will be present on both the X-T1 and X-T10, so you may find the improvements to focus peaking are enough without the split screen.

That said if I was planning to use the camera primarily for manual focusing I'd be much more likely to choose the X-T1, as the huge EVF (and the split screen mode that comes with it) will be very useful for avoiding errors. Holding both and trying to focus manually is definitely what I would do. I didn't need to test the manual focus on the X-T1 very much because the AF and face detection were working fine in the good light.

I've been debating on using the older lenses too. My eyes aren't what they used to be, so maybe I should just get an X-T10 and upgrade the lenses. The $350 difference helps significantly in replacing my ultra-wide. I really should sell all of my Nikon DSLR gear and just keep some film cameras around for fun. The X-E1 is the only thing I shoot digitally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
artuk

artuk: I didn't notice anything in particular about aperture dance but I definitely wasn't doing that kind of analysis. The X-T1 performed fast and wonderful the entire time compared to the X-E1 that I'm used to so if you're still using an X-PRO you can take for granted you'll get a consistency boost across many features if you upgrade to either X-T1 or X-T10.

This has been the problem since the introduction of the X Pro 1 - some people "didn't notice anything particular" and would therefore argue there was no shutter lag. The circumstances that caused aperture dance were a manually set large aperture (less than max), and a bright scene. When half pressing the shutter, even in MF mode, the aperture would go through a cycle of opening and closing and then returning to the shooting aperture setting. In AF mode, this happened before focusing, and made a quite notable delay before the AF cycle started. Another X-T1 user also found that there was a lag in MF mode when releasing the shutter that was related to (I think) set aperture and the direction the manual focus ring was turned when it was last adjusted. In some circumstances, he measured a 600ms delay (over half a second). Again, other users denied his findings, even though his test method seemed sound to me. Various people have claimed aperture dance / shutter lag was fixed in various firmware updates which made no reference to anything that sound liked a fix for it. A quick test of my X Pro would clearly show this was not the case. I don't own an X-T1, since I remain unconvinced that it doesn't contain some of these kind of issues in the firmware - certainly it did last year. (Try using EV lock and moving the AF point, too). This kind of unpredictable behavior does not make the camera a helpful tool.

I do agree with your comments on how professionals work. I don't think most of them fiddle around setting aperture and shutter manually for every shot, though of course individuals working methods will vary. I rarely use manual exposure settings unless I know the camera is going to meter incorrectly, or I'm using flash. Spot metering, EV lock and exposure compensation etc. is my preferred approach to "difficult" lighting. Most professional SLRs have highly sophisticated metering systems that use light and colour to perform scene recognition against tables of thousands of possible scenes, to allow the camera to correctly meter the type of scene. In general they are very reliable, and remove the need to the photographer to constantly adjust exposure manually - a good example of "intelligent automation" I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gryphon1911

I know when I shoot weddings, I don't do much more than adjust the exposure compensation and shoot in aperture priority mode with Auto-ISO. As long as the camera gets reasonably close(and almost all of them do nowadays), a slight tweak here or there is all that is really needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeremyclarke

I know when I shoot weddings, I don't do much more than adjust the exposure compensation and shoot in aperture priority mode with Auto-ISO. As long as the camera gets reasonably close(and almost all of them do nowadays), a slight tweak here or there is all that is really needed.

Exactly! Some of my shots were off by 1-3 stops but who cares, I was shooting RAW and under ISO 1000 so there was no problem fixing those shots in Lightroom. Now if I was coming up on ISO 6400 I'd have to be a lot more careful since the DR falls apart, but even then diligent use of EXP. COMP. should be enough to get it right in almost all cases, and keeping everything on automatic would be fine unless +-3EV wasn't enough to compensate for some reason. I can't imagine a situation where I would actually want to turn the ISO dial to 6400 ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
flysurfer

Couldn't replicate the MF/lag issue with F4 in a recent attempt to do so. Used a 18-55mm lens for testing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
artuk

Couldn't replicate the MF/lag issue with F4 in a recent attempt to do so. Used a 18-55mm lens for testing.

Thanks, so in theory it could be fixed? I know another thread here detailed it and there was definitely a (bizarre) connection with the direction the focus ring had been turned prior to releasing the shutter.

@jeremy - the meter was 3 stops out? wow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
gryphon1911

@jeremy - the meter was 3 stops out? wow.

I can imagine so depending on conditions. Last wedding I shot, there was a doorway that was 3-4 stops difference in light compared to the inner part of the sanctuary. The bride came down the isle so fast, I got some good silhouettes, but not anything more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MadDog

Well, my mommma aways told me to stay quiet unless I had something good to say. But I am compelled to offer some advice that you may not want to hear. I could care less about what kind of camera you want to use on a wedding shoot. Bridal photography is not about the camera. You should stop trying to pin your future success on camera technology and instead focus on learning posing techniques; lighting and shadow; and the psychology of how to interact with the couple before you. I think these things will take you farther into the whelm of photography than worrying about if you have the latest and greatest camera. I am not trying to dampen your obvious excitement about buying a new Fuji. I read your mini novel and I see nothing in there about posing/lighting techniques or when to press the shutter release. I hope (for God's sake) you will not become one of those photographers who shoots everything that moves - ending up with 200-350 images and hoping that 1 per cent will be any good. I never take more than 50-100 images on a wedding shoot - no matter how large or small. I carefully imagine what I want to see in the final image and let that be my guide. My shots are carefully chosen - even the candids - before I press the shutter. Knowing where to stand, timing, and anticipating what is coming next is of prime importance. At the end of the day, it simply doesn't matter what camera you use. Look back into history at some of the exquisite imagery taken by cameras that are are considered relics of a dead generation. These cameras can be purchased in any pawn shop for five dollars. Those master photographers relied on their own intuition and experience to get the shot. It is about interacting with people, making them feel confident, and getting to know them intimately - which affords you the opportunity to create priceless and unique images.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
artuk

@jeremy - the meter was 3 stops out? wow.

I can imagine so depending on conditions. Last wedding I shot, there was a doorway that was 3-4 stops difference in light compared to the inner part of the sanctuary. The bride came down the isle so fast, I got some good silhouettes, but not anything more.

Yes, backlit can be a problem. I've never had s high end Canon or Nikon SLR with scene recognition as part of the metering program, I had assumed they could cope with it better (automatically)? Ironically, I've had any number of low end film SLRs and point and shoot cameras that could identify a backlit scene and try and correct it (usually with flash). I did find the meter in my X Pro would tend to be a bit unpredictable in some circumstances, more so than my SLR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
raagamuffin

Artuk,

You are right, sometimes it takes years for technology to catch up to something that worked in the analog world (case in point, cell phone voice quality vs. landline).

MadDog, this thread is a commercial for the X-T10, .. in most commercials you never see good photos taken with the camera, only saucy photos of the camera itself showing lots of leg.. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jeremyclarke

Bridal photography is not about the camera. You should stop trying to pin your future success on camera technology and instead focus on learning posing techniques; lighting and shadow; and the psychology of how to interact with the couple before you. [...] I read your mini novel and I see nothing in there about posing/lighting techniques or when to press the shutter release.

MadDog, it seems you missed the appendix to my novel replying to a similarly traditional comment from veejaycee (here's the direct link to it).

The gist is that I want the camera to anticipate my technical needs and simplify the controls so that I can focus on EXACTLY what you are recommending: Interacting with the couple so that they actually enjoy themselves AND have amazing photos after. I am excited about the X-T10 and new firmware (in relation to my X-E1) because they free my mind to be creative instead of technical.

My recommendations to Fuji (probably the real reason I took the time to write this) are based on making an already amazing camera into the PERFECT camera. I don't see how hoping for something perfect implies that I don't think you can get good pictures with other/older cameras, of course you can! It's the same reason comparing photos from an X-E1 and X-T1 is pointless, the only meaningful difference is the experience of using the cameras and the number of "missed shots", which we can't look at or compare because they don't exist.

Those old masters took amazing photos that are just as good as today's (with nostalgia to make them even better, though our photos will have that eventually too). That said it took years of practice at inane technical details (and dangerous chemical exposure!) for them to get those photos, and I don't want or need to go through all that :D

Fuji and other manufacturers are designing these cameras so well that I only have to learn the posing/timing/emotionality of photography to make great photographs and that is awesome. I am of course a big huge nerd, so I want to learn to drive the camera in manual too, but when the photos are critical and mistakes are unacceptable I'd rather let the robot drive and focus on the scenery.

Your comment is kind of funny because it implies you expected my detailed comparison of two digital cameras to focus on posing and shot-anticipation techniques. Why would I have written about that, and if I wanted to, why would I write about it on this forum? (I'm sure it would have been welcome, but it really is off-topic unless I was talking about it in the context of Fuji X cameras).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recommended Discussions



×
×
  • Create New...