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excalibur2811

Macro photography and the XT-1

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excalibur2811

Hi All,

Now that I have seen what the XT-1 can do, I really would like to start experimenting with macro photography.

Can someone kindly guide me on the basic options I have please?

At this stage I am not after buying a dedicated expensive lens but since I might at some point come across some second hand bargain it would at least be good to know what I should be looking out for.

New lens aside, is there any fitting that would allow me to focus on and magnify an object using my standard kit lens (18-55 mm)?

Thanks.

John

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veejaycee

A used Fuji 60mm f2.4 macro may come within your reach and is a great portrait lens into the bargain. However you can use your 18-55mm zoom by fitting either a extension tube between lens and body or close up filters to lens front.

Close up filters come from many different manufacturers but many on the market, especially the cheap ones are not to be trusted and you are introducing another glass element into the equation. Far better are the Canon 250/500 and Raynox 250/500 which fit a number of different lenses in filter style and are excellent.

Ext tubes place no elements between the lens and body so no distortion but they do restrict the amount of light reaching the sensor meaning longer exposures or the use of flash because DoF is very very narrow at macro distances so you will in addition be working at small apertures.

Automation is available in all.
 

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farrell

 

The 18-55 is an excellent 3:1 zoom lens in the application it was designed for.

My advice is to buy an X-Nikon F adapter and shop for an old ugly 55mm f/3.5

Micro-Nikkor on ebay. Its focusing mount has a lot of extension. Even the very

earliest versions are excellent for macro because for one thing they are optically

symmetrical.  

Such an outfit does cost some money, but it's the best least expensive way I can

think of.

 

 

 

 

Edited by farrell
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Petrus

Ext tubes place no elements between the lens and body so no distortion but they do restrict the amount of light reaching the sensor meaning longer exposures or the use of flash because DoF is very very narrow at macro distances so you will in addition be working at small apertures.

Well, extension rings themselves do not restrict the amount of light reaching the sensor, close focusing does it. Actually focusing anywhere closer than infinity will decrease the exposure slightly, which of course is automatically corrected for by the camera exposure automation.

If at infinity the exposure is 1, when shooting at 1:1 magnification (true size), the exposure correction is 4-fold or 2 stops more. This is simply because the lens, when focused at 1:1 magnification, is twice the focal length distance from the sensor, and the light is spread to 4 times the area compared to when focused to infinity (lens at 1 focal length from sensor).

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morpheme

I've got the setup Farrell mentions. It cost me all of about $65-70. I have an old Nikon micro 55, circa about 1980 that cost $55 and a manual adapter that cost, if I am remembering correctly $10 or 15. It works great and that old Nikon glass performs just fine.

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RichardCFrost

I have two options:

1. I bought an FX - OM adapter (K&F Concepts, Amazon, ~£10) and an Olympus OM50mm f3.5 Macro ~£35. This becomes a cheap and lightweight fully manual and straightforward macro set up.

2. I have the Raynox 250 macro filter, which simple clips on to the end of your lens and allows you to use the camera 'normally', with full electronic contact to the lens. This was around £35 on Amazon if I remember correctly. The real problem with this is the amount of magnification is phenomenal, making focus stacking a must. I would recommend you start with the slightly more expensive  and less powerful Raynox 150 and take it from there. Also, you should check if the clip on adapter will fit the end of your 18-55. I have not used mine on the X-T10 yet so I can't tell if it will fit (I am at work right now).

Good luck. Macro opens up a whole new world, for which you are likely to need a good tripod and some good lighting and, potentially, software which can stack many shots and merge the focussed areas (focus stacking).

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veejaycee

Well, extension rings themselves do not restrict the amount of light reaching the sensor, close focusing does it. Actually focusing anywhere closer than infinity will decrease the exposure slightly, which of course is automatically corrected for by the camera exposure automation.

If at infinity the exposure is 1, when shooting at 1:1 magnification (true size), the exposure correction is 4-fold or 2 stops more. This is simply because the lens, when focused at 1:1 magnification, is twice the focal length distance from the sensor, and the light is spread to 4 times the area compared to when focused to infinity (lens at 1 focal length from sensor).

.... and there was me trying to avoid muddying the waters. The effect is the same. Do you really think he needed to know that? Do you really think you helped? We are dealing with a newcomer to photography who certainly at this stage does not need to know all the science he only needs to know is that he will be restricted as to choice of aperture/lighting.

That was a waste of time then.

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excalibur2811

Thanks all.

@veejaycee  

Its fine. I'm not about to be scared off by a bit of science.  :-)

Fact is I actually enjoy understanding what is going on; and if the going gets too tough I'll just postpone the understanding until I find a clearer explanation.  It helps that my life philosophy is based around lifelong learning. :-)

In the meantime I have loads of books to read and videos lined up. 

Got to find time for it all, especially since I am also learning electronics and robotics, but it will all come together in the end.

Meanwhile, in an attempt not to clog up the forum with off-topic subjects I sent you a message through the forum some time back. Is that ok or don't people use the messaging on this platform?

Also what is the difference between putting photos up on the gallery shown at the top of the screen and using "Photo Gallery" in "Digital Darkroom"? Is the latter intended only for photo-shopped photos?

John

 

 

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excalibur2811

Dear All,

Advice appreciated.

My friend is selling the following equipment:

Panagor reflex 500mm 1:8 Macro

Canon FD 50mm 1:1.8

Cosina 28mm 1:2.8 Macro

Tokura Zoom 60-300mm 1:4.0 - 1:5.6

Plus her old Canon Av1

All for around 70 Euros.

Anyone heard of the above lenses. Should I go for it?

Thanks.

John

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veejaycee

Panagor reflex is a mirror lens. Compact with characteristic "donut" oof highlights. Fixed aperture though and along with the Tokura (never heard of them) 60-300 zoom is impossible to hold still while focusing even on a tripod since the mere act of manual focus will have the EVF jumping all over the place. The only good pictures I've seen with non - IBIS (in body stabilisation were tripod mounted via expensive gimbal heads. The Cosina macro on account of your recently expressed interest in macro may be worth while but will have a very close working distance and as a general purpose lens will be less stellar than your Fuji zoom but might be fine for IR if cheap. The Canon 50mm is a good lens but you'll need to check on ebay what they are worth. From memory the Canon AV1 was the all auto version of the much better AE1 itself the enthusiast version of the class leading Canon A1/F1 of the time - not really worth anything unless you want spend on film and developing in which case get a Contax/Nikon/Canon film camera of more recent vintage.

Maybe offer 30-35 euros for both the Canon 50mm and the Cosina 28mm combined but bear in mind you'll have to buy 2 adapters to be able to use them.

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veejaycee

I should have mentioned another method which is to fit a second lens backwards via a reversing ring by fitting something like a Cosina 28mm onto the front of an adapter mounted Canon 50mm or your Fuji 18-55 zoom. The front lens (Cossie 28mm?) is reversed with open aperture while exposure is controlled by the lens (50mm Canon or Fuji zoom) fitted to the camera. Ultra macros can be obtained by this cheap method but for steadiness and precise aim and focus, a focus slide is useful in the studio or out in the field - especially for focus stacking (that's for later). I use one of these. http://extreme-macro.co.uk/velbon-stage/ but there are other makes.

This explains reverse fitting.

http://digital-photography-school.com/reverse-lens-macro-close-up-photography-lesson-3/

The above website is well worthwhile exploring more fully.

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excalibur2811

Panagor reflex is a mirror lens. Compact with characteristic "donut" oof highlights. Fixed aperture though and along with the Tokura (never heard of them) 60-300 zoom is impossible to hold still while focusing even on a tripod since the mere act of manual focus will have the EVF jumping all over the place. The only good pictures I've seen with non - IBIS (in body stabilisation were tripod mounted via expensive gimbal heads. The Cosina macro on account of your recently expressed interest in macro may be worth while but will have a very close working distance and as a general purpose lens will be less stellar than your Fuji zoom but might be fine for IR if cheap. The Canon 50mm is a good lens but you'll need to check on ebay what they are worth. From memory the Canon AV1 was the all auto version of the much better AE1 itself the enthusiast version of the class leading Canon A1/F1 of the time - not really worth anything unless you want spend on film and developing in which case get a Contax/Nikon/Canon film camera of more recent vintage.

Maybe offer 30-35 euros for both the Canon 50mm and the Cosina 28mm combined but bear in mind you'll have to buy 2 adapters to be able to use them.

Thanks for the honest appraisal. 

The Panagor was actually a bonus lens she was throwing into the pot. It dates back to the 1980's and someone commented that you don't even find it on e-bay any more.

As for the Tokura, I think she meant Tokina! As in http://www.photographyreview.com/cat/lenses/35mm-zoom/tokina/60-300mm-f-4-5-6/prd_388497_3128crx.aspx  It got quite a good review apparently.

The Canon should be a good alternative to my Pentax prime and the Cosina should be a good first macro to play around with.

Since this is a friend (and therefore I know the lenses have not been abused) I might possibly just take the lot even if just for experimenting with. (I like mechanical things and glass). I mean 70 Euros is probably not that much even for just the 2 "good" lenses. I don't think she wants to sell off single items and in any case I could maybe get rid of the one I don't want on ebay or something.

The only catch is whether I would find adapters for my XT1. I have no idea what these lenses have as mounts and I will need to check that before I buy anything.

Thanks again.

John

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farrell

.... and there was me trying to avoid muddying the waters. The effect is the same. Do you really think he needed to know that? Do you really think you helped? We are dealing with a newcomer to photography who certainly at this stage does not need to know all the science he only needs to know is that he will be restricted as to choice of aperture/lighting.

That was a waste of time then.

You and Petrus have both made very important points.

It is hard to know how ready someone we're trying to help is for points of photo-optical science

before it becomes TMI for the time.

I'm very much a believer that every day is a school day or should be but try to keep my advice 

relevant to the specific question.

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veejaycee

You'll have no problem with the mounts which assuming they were used on that camera should all be canon mounts. Cosina made cameras and lenses but mostly slightly cheaper lenses as 3rd party. You should be able to sell the surplus long lenses for use via adapters with OLY, M4/3 and the latest Sony AR7 series both of which employ IBIS stabilisation.

You are correct in that the lenses will be cheap even buying the lot and you might well get your money back selling the long lenses.

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K1W1_Mk2

The Panagor was actually a bonus lens she was throwing into the pot. It dates back to the 1980's and someone commented that you don't even find it on e-bay any more.

 

Because you can buy paper weights much cheaper in the non photographic sections of ebay.

Reflex lenses are fun for about 2 minutes.

Back to macro I was going to suggest the option of a reversing ring with pretty well any lens you like. The classic "nifty 50 1.8" that most manufacturers have is a good option for this exercise and even new the 50s are dirt cheap.

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farrell

Because you can buy paper weights much cheaper in the non photographic sections of ebay.

Reflex lenses are fun for about 2 minutes.

Back to macro I was going to suggest the option of a reversing ring with pretty well any lens you like. The classic "nifty 50 1.8" that most manufacturers have is a good option for this exercise and even new the 50s are dirt cheap.

I used that system many years ago on bellows as an inexpensive but very effective intro to macro.

Much better with 50mm Nikkor f/2 or f/1.8 than f/1.4(barrel distortion,field curvature).  

As to the exposure complications of macro, we can now use the sensor as an exposure

meter and delete our mistakes.

Edited by farrell
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MarcoDebiasi

...

2. I have the Raynox 250 macro filter, which simple clips on to the end of your lens and allows you to use the camera 'normally', with full electronic contact to the lens. This was around £35 on Amazon if I remember correctly. The real problem with this is the amount of magnification is phenomenal, making focus stacking a must. I would recommend you start with the slightly more expensive  and less powerful Raynox 150 and take it from there. Also, you should check if the clip on adapter will fit the end of your 18-55. I have not used mine on the X-T10 yet so I can't tell if it will fit (I am at work right now).

...

I think this is a very good suggestion if you want to start exploring macro photography without committing yet to the purchase of a dedicated lens. Raynox macro lenses are of high quality in spite of their reasonable price. The DCR-150 Macro lens has an adapter that allows it to be used on any lens with filter thread size from 52mm to 67mm, so it would fit on your 18-55 as well as on other lenses you may acquire in the future. A part from the price and adaptability, one advantage of this solution is that you can use your Fujifilm lens just as usual, with all the automation and exif information available.

Then, if I were in your shoes, I would start saving some money to purchase the XF 60mm f/2.4. Many users, also in this forum, can attest it is a gem of a lens with very high sharpness and excellent out-of-focus rendition (bokeh). These together with its focal length and close-up capabilities make it a very flexible and usable lens. Its focusing used to be slow and frustrating, but this has improved with recent firmware. After the release of the XF 90mm f/2 some XF 60mm lenses in excellent condition have appeared in the second-hand market for less than US$400; in some cases you can find special deals for them new or refurbished by Fujifilm for similar or slightly higher prices. A part its uncompromising optical quality, the obvious advantage of the XF 60mm relative to adapted lenses is that you can use it either manually, if you want, or with full automation if necessary.

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excalibur2811

@MarcoDebiasi  @K1W1_Mk2 @farrell  @veejaycee 

Done.

I have just purchased the XF 60 mm f/2.4 in "as new" condition from someone in Germany. We'll see how that goes.

I am also bidding on a used DCR-150 ("used only once") and that should be determined tomorrow.

For now that's it as far as lenses are concerned as I am entering overdose territory and have yet to experiment properly with what I actually have.

Thanks all. I owe you guys.

John

Edited by excalibur2811

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excalibur2811

Update:

"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread". How true!

I just found that the 60 mm is cheaper (by around 18 Euros) if purchased brand new! I have now written to cancel my order and hopefully will be refunded in time. My bad for making a quick purchase from the office. Buying new also means it would come with a 2 year warranty and its the same seller where I got the camera.

Cleaning: Meanwhile I have collected (and paid for) the 4 lenses from my friend. The "Tokura" (it is Tokura not Tokina, but could be a rebrand) and Panagor are huge. The lenses may also need some slight cleaning, hopefully from the outside only.  What can I use for this? Would a soft dampened cotton cloth do? Or maybe a microfibre cloth? Or do I need to buy lens cleaning solution?

Adapters:  since these lenses were intended for use with a canon FD mount (and perhaps in some cases have an adapter for this attached from whatever their native mount was), would this mean I need to get a "Canon FD to Fuji X" adapter and use that on top of their existing ones? This would then mean two adapters back to back.

Is this done or considered a crude way of working? More importantly however, does it effect the optics in any really bad way?  The fact is I am unlikely to find a dedicated adapter for a Tokura or a Panagor if people have not even heard of them!

Would this adapter do the job? It certainly seems robust enough. http://www.ebay.com/itm/400626260253?_trksid=p11401.c100358.m3753&_trkparms=aid%3D333008%26algo%3DRIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20150112100450%26meid%3Dbd8f287d480347c79a2197bd3d600672%26pid%3D100358%26rk%3D8%26rkt%3D8%26sd%3D262274248461  

Thanks.

John

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MarcoDebiasi

John, first of all, I hope your refund and repurchase of the XF 60mm will end well.

If you see that the Tokura and the Panagor already have an adapter, then I guess they are lenses from the 70s, and era when several Japanese manufacturers experimented the use of adapters such that the same lens could be adapted (more or less permanently) for use with different cameras. The T mount was quite common: originally developed by Taisei Kogaku (Tamron) it had been adopted in different variants by other manufacturers. I suspect your lenses may have some sort of T mount adapter. Tamron then went on to develop its Adaptall and Adaptall 2 types, the latter in particular being so well featured and effective that lenses with this mount were still manufactured in the 90s (basically until autofocus SRLs killed the manual focus SRL market). Back to your question, as you say, I agree it would be hard (and maybe expensive) to find an adapter going from the native lens mount to the FX type. So, if all your friend's lenses terminate with a Canon FD mount, the best thing is to use a FD to FX mount like the one you have found.

Stacking adapters is not the best practice, but those already installed by a manufacturer on their lenses can be pretty much considered part of the lens itself. In general the troubles seem to come from the adapter going from the lens to the camera: some of them are better than others and I am sure many members of this forum can offer their advice based on their experience. 

I do not know anything about the FD to FX adapter you have found. It is sold in Germany but chances are it was made in China. It seems to incorporate a tripod mount which could be a much welcome feature to directly connect a heavy lens to a tripod rather than straining the camera for this.

In any case, do not hold too high expectations from neither of the lenses above. Likely both (and particularly the zoom) will have less than stellar performance on your X-T1 (unless you happen to stumble on an unknown gem). In addition, they will be very hard to manual focus (especially the Panagor whose equivalent focal length would be 750mm), possibly even if mounted on a tripod.

Edited by MarcoDebiasi
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excalibur2811

I managed to get a refund with minutes to spare. I ordered the 60 mm new. 

As for the rest as I said the 2 telephotos are a bonus for experimentation. The smaller lenses should be far more useful especially the canon prime. 

I am curious about the flash gun. Hanimex is cheapish but the flash has a supporting bracket and can be tilted up.

Hours of fun ahead :-)

John

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RichardCFrost

Hours of fun ahead

 

Years one would hope. You've got a good all round setup now with lots of avenues to try, so get out shooting now and have fun fun fun.

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veejaycee

Yes, time to forget about the gear and go out to shoot pictures. On Malta you've no shortage of subjects in a fairly small area.

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excalibur2811

Update:

I have now had the chance to examine the "goodies"  I purchased for 70 Euros. 

Apart from the 4 lenses already detailed above - all of which have caps at both ends and in the case of the zoom lenses, also pouches/cases) - I was given some miscellaneous items including a few converter rings (allow conversion between different diameters) and (interestingly) an additional "FD camera" adapter with a screw thread at the other (non-camera) end, which allowed me (after some fiddling about at 2am) to attach the Canon 50 mm prime lens in reverse. Of course, since my FD to X adapter is still on the way, I had to use the Canon AV1 viewfinder to see the effect. It was a bit of an anti-climax however since the image was very dim, the angle of view is very small, and it seems fiddly at best to focus on anything. Some background reading later, I now better understand the value of additional lighting for macro, and maybe a small mount similar to that recommended by veejaycee.

However (as veejaycee also pointed out) I may also be able to attach it to the front of my own 18-55 in which case things might be a little better in terms of focus and possibly some support from the camera's electronic intelligence.

Moving on, I found that the (heavy) Panagor Reflex 500 mm had some colour filters hidden/stored in the carry case. Unfortunately what it does not have is an adapter for it to fit the Canon AV1. I have queried this with the person I purchased it from, but no worries as I am still happy with the other three lenses,which incidentally all came with a UV filter attached (apparently common practice back then, so a good thing overall).

No mould or any blemishes I could see on any lens, although of course the lenses look a little "old".

Also among the goodies is a Hanimex flash, specifically a Pz2.44. The battery holder (4 Pencil batteries) was broken, but I suppose it can easily be replaced. I might even use a LIPO battery since I am into robotics and use these anyway and they should last longer in between recharging.  In any case I connected my bench power supply and tried it out using the test button and it seems to work fine so at least the capacitor is still good. Actual synchronisation may take some fiddling about and may not even be possible, but to help with this I do have the user manual (a paper booklet) and I could always after all use it as a slave flashgun. Its got the usual diffusion filter, it tilts and angles and has two flashlights, plus a mount. Photo is attached.

I do know it may be unsafe to connect to the hotshoe (even if it had a fitting for this which it does not) so won't even go there.

However I would like to be able to plug the trigger cable into the synch terminal at the front of the camera; does anyone know if it is risky to use the synch connector? At this time its a moot point really as I can't even remove the cap (it seems to be very tightly inserted). Does one just tug on it or is it screwed in or something?  

As you can see from the photo, the flashgun attaches to the tripod mount and it looks ok, although "Hanimex".

Still, snob factor apart, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. 

We'll see how it goes.

John

 

flashgun.thumb.jpg.f12b377c03f1e31358a54

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veejaycee

Hi John, The missing adapter is most likely to a standard T2 to Canon FD. T2 has long been used as an adapter for various accessories and attachments such as slide copiers to connect directly to the camera and it was common for the smaller manufacturers to use it for lenses where the was no automation The mirror (reflex) lens is fixed aperture. T2 adapters are dirt cheap but it will need to fitted to the FD - Fuji adapter too.

RE the flash. I believe the Fuji trigger voltage is around 12V so measure the Hanimex if you have the means or use it via remote triggers. It is not mentioned below but several of the Hanimex are very high voltage. The highest power Canon Speedlight listed for use with the AV1 is the 199A at about 5v but listed by Canon as 6V. The fact that it came with - and I assume has been used with - the Canon, indicates it should be safe but check it first if you can.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

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