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Bob_Boyer

Another Game Changer

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Bob_Boyer

Anyone seen this bad boy yet?

http://fujifilm-x.com/gfx/

I think I glanced at something on Luminous Landscape but maybe elsewhere that estimated the body price at $8k, not a bad price point at all for medium format digital. 51 mp sensor. Lens lineup is pretty tasty, as well; 18, 24-50, 35, 50, 85 and 95 macro 35mm equivalent lengths being brought online in 2017.

Almost makes me want a big camera again.

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artuk

What about it changes the game compared to other medium format cameras?

It was announced a few months ago, price was not confirmed at the time, but comparisons to the Hasselblad alternative with the same sensor seemed to favour the Hassy.

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Christopher

I think it's pretty awesome, I'm excited to see where Fujifilm takes the GFX line! Applying the principals of the X Series to a medium format sensor seems like a winner to me. Digital medium format has long been a brutally expensive niche industry compared to APS-C and 'Full Frame' cameras, I think Fujifilm is carving out a whole new niche on new technology while shedding traditional expectations of what makes a medium format camera (leaf shutters). They've said they will not make a full frame X Series camera or compromise the compact size, why fight for small gains with full frame when they can do so much more with a dedicated medium format system? They're not going after a prosumer market with the GFX line, but they are opening up digital medium format to a whole new group of photographers that were previously held back by cost.

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K1W1_Mk2

Fuji have never said what sort of sensor it has but the assumption is that because they haven't mentioned X-Trans its most likely Bayer which I guess from a processing point of view for that sort of camera would be a good move.

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artuk
7 hours ago, Christopher said:

I think it's pretty awesome, I'm excited to see where Fujifilm takes the GFX line! Applying the principals of the X Series to a medium format sensor seems like a winner to me. Digital medium format has long been a brutally expensive niche industry compared to APS-C and 'Full Frame' cameras, I think Fujifilm is carving out a whole new niche on new technology while shedding traditional expectations of what makes a medium format camera (leaf shutters). They've said they will not make a full frame X Series camera or compromise the compact size, why fight for small gains with full frame when they can do so much more with a dedicated medium format system? They're not going after a prosumer market with the GFX line, but they are opening up digital medium format to a whole new group of photographers that were previously held back by cost.

The Sony sensor it uses is already well regarded as a CMOS MF device. The issue Fuji will have is price - it's still not confirmed, and if it's too close to established rivals such as the Hasselblad with the same sensor that fits into an extensive Hasselblad system, then it could be a tough sell.  If the price is significantly lower, I can see it getting traction with some rich non-professionals and a few pro users, but it depends on their needs and how extensive (or not) the new Fuji system is.  To be honest I don't quite buy the statement about size and quality - Sony's first generation A7 cameras were no bigger or heavier than something like an X-T1, but the latest state of the art full frame sensors are quite special compared to APS-C.  DX0 haven't tested the 50Mp CMOS unit the new Fuji is based on, but one assume the larger pixels give some benefits over FF too (colour depth, maybe noise).  The price will be the deciding factor.

I agree with KIWI about sensor - I sincerely hope it's a Bayer device, since I don't see any significant benefit to XTrans but several issues that I don't think professionals want to deal with.

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veejaycee
14 hours ago, Bob_Boyer said:

Anyone seen this bad boy yet?

http://fujifilm-x.com/gfx/

I think I glanced at something on Luminous Landscape but maybe elsewhere that estimated the body price at $8k, not a bad price point at all for medium format digital. 51 mp sensor. Lens lineup is pretty tasty, as well; 18, 24-50, 35, 50, 85 and 95 macro 35mm equivalent lengths being brought online in 2017.

Almost makes me want a big camera again.

I believe I read in the initial reports that Fuji would also sell an adapter with automation to allow Hassy (I think) lenses to be used. This would allow the Fuji GFX to shoot as a focal plane shutter or leaf shutter which opens up more possibilities.

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Christopher
7 hours ago, artuk said:

The Sony sensor it uses is already well regarded as a CMOS MF device. The issue Fuji will have is price - it's still not confirmed, and if it's too close to established rivals such as the Hasselblad with the same sensor that fits into an extensive Hasselblad system, then it could be a tough sell.  If the price is significantly lower, I can see it getting traction with some rich non-professionals and a few pro users, but it depends on their needs and how extensive (or not) the new Fuji system is.  To be honest I don't quite buy the statement about size and quality - Sony's first generation A7 cameras were no bigger or heavier than something like an X-T1, but the latest state of the art full frame sensors are quite special compared to APS-C.  DX0 haven't tested the 50Mp CMOS unit the new Fuji is based on, but one assume the larger pixels give some benefits over FF too (colour depth, maybe noise).  The price will be the deciding factor.

Fujinon has been developing and building Hasselblad's medium format lenses since 2002.

With Hasselblad seemingly outsourcing everything they do these days, it stands to reason that Fujifilm is involved in developing Hasselblad's new digital mirrorless medium format camera, along with their lenses. At the very least Fujifilm is likely the manufacturer.

You're right that the pricing will determine their success. Given the history of what Hasselblad did with their rebranded Sony APS-C NEX line, I can't fathom how Hasselblad's price would come anywhere near Fujifilm's anticipated price. I mean, just look at this strange beast circa 2013:

Hasselblad-Lunar-Sony-NEX-7.jpg

You mentioned the size of the full frame A7 body comparing to the X-T1. It's not so much the size of the body that is the issue, it's the larger lenses that full frame sensors require that spoil the compact nature. http://camerasize.com/compact/#624.510,557.454,650.456,ha,t

Screen Shot 2016-12-03 at 10.41.06 AM.png

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K1W1_Mk2
5 hours ago, Christopher said:

Fujinon has been developing and building Hasselblad's medium format lenses since 2002.

With Hasselblad seemingly outsourcing everything they do these days, it stands to reason that Fujifilm is involved in developing Hasselblad's new digital mirrorless medium format camera, along with their lenses. At the very least Fujifilm is likely the manufacturer.

AFAIK Fuji are not involved in the MF Hasselblad at all. I believe the lenses for it are coming from one of the Chinese manufacturers. 

Logical I guess. Fujis aim will be to become the dominant MF player and working with Hasselblad now and letting others have their IP would not help them achieve that.

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artuk
6 hours ago, Christopher said:

Fujinon has been developing and building Hasselblad's medium format lenses since 2002.

With Hasselblad seemingly outsourcing everything they do these days, it stands to reason that Fujifilm is involved in developing Hasselblad's new digital mirrorless medium format camera, along with their lenses. At the very least Fujifilm is likely the manufacturer.

You're right that the pricing will determine their success. Given the history of what Hasselblad did with their rebranded Sony APS-C NEX line, I can't fathom how Hasselblad's price would come anywhere near Fujifilm's anticipated price. I mean, just look at this strange beast circa 2013:

Hasselblad-Lunar-Sony-NEX-7.jpg

You mentioned the size of the full frame A7 body comparing to the X-T1. It's not so much the size of the body that is the issue, it's the larger lenses that full frame sensors require that spoil the compact nature. http://camerasize.com/compact/#624.510,557.454,650.456,ha,t

Screen Shot 2016-12-03 at 10.41.06 AM.png

Hasselblad went through a very strange phase under their previous leader with their relationship with Sony - even Sony users didn't understand what the hell they were doing trying to sell a rebadged Sony camera as some weird "premium" luxury device clad in titanium hammered by vestal virgins on the far side of the moon from Unobtainium.  Thankfully they seem to have got over that phase, and have returned to some form with their recent MF camera system.

There are some interesting theories about Sony's FF E series lenses.  The first were small, but then something happened and some of them got very large.  The theory is that the 36Mp sensor in the A7r (and Nikon D800) was very intolerant with a short flange depth and some wider lenses, causing all sorts of softness in the outer field.  On the newer A7rii previously so-so lenses appear much better, and on lesser sensors many perform perfectly well.  It's believed Sony have had to design to accommodate the A7r sensor issues, resulting in more telecentric designs to deal with outer field issues, making all the lenses somewhat larger.  Interestingly, the Batis 85mm featured in your picture is smaller and much lighter than my Minolta 85mm G (f1.4).  The picture is also slightly unfair as it doesn't align the cameras on the sensor plane, which changes the perception of size.  However, I can't disagree that full frame lenses are larger than APS-C - my FF mirrorless system is maybe 5Kg whereas the equivalent in my APS-C system is maybe 2.5kg.  Of course, MF is a whole order larger again, and can't do many of the things that FF cameras are good at (high frame rates, fast AF, sports, birding) and are generally best in the studio or on a tripod.  However, larger sensors do things better than smaller ones, in general - FF has better DR and noise management than APS-C, which is better than m43rds.  Ultimately, you take your choice - for me, ultra high ISO ability clinched it as shooting at ISO 16,000 and getting files than can be printed at A4 was simply something APS-C can't do (yet!).  My general point was that MF is a most specialist tool and generally price prohibitive.

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